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/g/ Technology

Warning: All the content of this page originally come from 4chan.org. This is only a partial archive made to avoid destruction. Some posts and images may be missing. All the messages below have been posted by anonymous users and we do not guarantee any truth of what they said.
For any illegal content, please contact me so that I can immediatly destroy it!

Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:51:27 No.28002630

[Missing image file: venus_vagina.jpg]

The Venus Project is a cult that wants to get rid of money and have a resource economy instead.

This is an email exchange I had with them.

The Venus Project Tours
Inbox
x


blah(atski)blah.com
Aug 21

to tvp
I am interested.
Can I give you $200 worth of resources you might need?
The journey begins with one step, after all.

tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com
Aug 22

to me
I'm sorry we don't understand what you are asking

blah(atski)blah.com
Aug 22

to tvp
You charge $200 per tour.

I would like to give you whatever resources you need (food, plywood, USB drives, batteries, etc.) instead of money.
Send me a shopping list for $200 and I'll buy the stuff you requested, bring it to you in return for the tour and the DVDs and pamphlets.


tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com
Aug 23

to me
We don't really do it that way, would be more troublesome. Let us know what is feasible if the usual 200 fee is not.
best,
Joel

blah(atski)blah.com
Aug 23

to tvp
Don't you think we should start building a resource-based economy right now?
You're obviously planning your resource needs, so I'm willing to help you with that.

Think globally, act locally and all that?


tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com tvp(atski)thevenusproject.com
Aug 23

to me
If you want to attend a tour session with Jacque please let us know what you can afford, we do not do it that way.

We also need to have the following information in advance for us to schedule you:
>info dump here


>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:52:13 No.28002636
So they're hypocrites, just like all the other Zeitgeist fags.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:53:13 No.28002647
NEWSFLASH: A CULT THAT WANTS YOUR MONEY.
How shocking.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:54:10 No.28002656
The only reason this would never work is because it's socialist as hell. A free market version would work.

Also, fuck off with your shit back to /pol/. I left for a reason.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:54:15 No.28002657
don't you get it?
money is evil and they want to help you by taking the evil from you and neutralizing it.
ungrateful op is ungrateful.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:55:04 No.28002661

[Missing image file: 1346381598867.jpg]
Am I the only one that thinks the pic looks like a green prison?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:56:06 No.28002674
>>28002656
It's technology-related, you silly /g/oose.

>A resource-based economy would make it possible to use technology to overcome scarce resources by applying renewable sources of energy, computerizing and automating manufacturing and inventory, designing safe energy-efficient cities and advanced transportation systems, providing universal health care and more relevant education, and most of all by generating a new incentive system based on human and environmental concern.

So they want everything to be managed by a giant mainframe.
Yup, don't see how that could go wrong...

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:56:44 No.28002680
>>28002661
Yes, Nippletoad, you are correct.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:56:44 No.28002681
>>28002661

There's no need to leave the project. Why would you want to?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:57:00 No.28002684

[Missing image file: Mainframe-after-earthquake.png]
>>28002674

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:57:46 No.28002689
Do they wan't to make an islotaed city to show their system works? How big must such a city be for it to have all the resources it needs? Or are they just waiting for the singularity?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:58:31 No.28002696
>>28002636
I thought that until I heard the Joe Rogan with the zeitgeist dude

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:58:37 No.28002697
Seriously, it's funny.
Their entire website talks about the evil of money and how shitty it is and when you offer to give them resources instead, they tell you "cash or check only."

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:59:19 No.28002701
>>28002681
Blackjack and hookers. I bet you won't have hookers in there.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 10:59:30 No.28002703
>>28002696
Also, I think the venus project has no longer any connection with the zeitgeist movement.
I guess they were too crazy even for them.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:00:04 No.28002706
>>28002701
In fact, screw the project.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:00:38 No.28002711
>wasting your time with crap you don't like

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:00:48 No.28002713
>>28002689

They're going to build it in Guiana.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:00:53 No.28002715
>>28002689
Yes, they have a compound in a Florida swamp and they're providing tours for only $200.
Cash or check only.
No resource-based economy here!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:01:24 No.28002720
>>28002713
>DRINK THE KOOLAID! DRINK IT!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:02:08 No.28002727
>>28002711
I initially thought it was a cool idea, but was disappointed when they didn't want to eat their own dogfood, to use a software development aphorism.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:04:17 No.28002745

[Missing image file: Jim Jones day of massacre.jpg]
>>28002713
I like it!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:06:04 No.28002762
that shit looks like something out of scientology, im already seeing tom cruise talking to the masses like david koresh

>>
Ambien 2012-10-02 11:06:06 No.28002763
>Resource economy
>Your money suddenly vanishes forever if you are robbed, or a bank is robbed.
>People can literally mine money and own 80% of the words buying power, moreso than they already do

Fucking retarded.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:06:18 No.28002766
>>28002727
why would they?
they don't live in a resource-based economy, so they're forced to use money like everyone else!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:07:45 No.28002779
>>28002762
It's a lot like scientology for architects.
Good catch, anon!
Except Jacques Fresco isn't as charismatic as L. Ron Hubbard was.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:08:35 No.28002792
>>28002763
And everything is centrally planned by the glorious mainframe.
Yes, all glory to the command-line economy!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:10:13 No.28002804

[Missing image file: 14810665.jpg]
Or and you can buy his book as well!
Fuck this.
They are more dishonest than Scientology.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:10:52 No.28002812
>>28002766
If it doesn't even work in a small scale, it won't work on a large scale.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:11:40 No.28002825
>>28002792
I love the mainframe concept. If they really knew what they were doing they could figure out how to run the country without a *super mainframe that runs everything*. If they don't know how to manage things themselves they certainly won't be able to tell a computer how to do it.

I love how they feel like they can magic away all the shit they haven't figured out yet by saying "a magically fast computer will work it out for us!!".

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:11:57 No.28002828
Video relevant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VkoAGlr3KUg

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:13:07 No.28002840
>>28002825
yup. and their little swamp city looks like a poor man's legion of doom HQ.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:13:09 No.28002841
>>28002766
not everyone in the world uses money. there's plenty of tribes around that don't use it.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:13:19 No.28002845
>>28002630
>have an absolute idea
>don't structure the beginning from that idea
Even in less out there ideas, if you're not true to it from the start, no one will believe in it. These people are clearly frauds.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:14:36 No.28002858
>>28002841
>there's plenty of tribes around that don't use it.
Who use some form of battering system, with one resource being more important and having a greater worth than others. Even aboriginal Australians, the most simplest of all people, traded in sea shells.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:14:51 No.28002861
>>28002804
You have to buy it? It isn't available for free? If you want people to listen to you, wouldn't it be best to give that shit out for free. "Pay me so I can tell you why money is bad."

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:15:10 No.28002863
>>28002841
and they are more honest than the venus project, because they live what they preach.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:15:27 No.28002868
>>28002858
a resource based economy is still a bartering system of sorts from what I understand.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:16:08 No.28002872
>>28002861
Yup. It's hilarious.
And it's worse than other cults like Scientology, because they do not oppose money as a concept.
These guys do, which makes it more ironic.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:16:46 No.28002879
>>28002868
you're retarded.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:17:56 No.28002891
>>28002825
I remember an Asimov story along the same lines. They built comuters who built better computers until it came to a point that it was too complicated for humans. Then they couldn't figure out why shit was going wrong with the world economy controlled by such computers.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:17:56 No.28002892
>>28002868
And you will still create an unequal worth towards some resources, as in whatever is in demand rather than supply. Currency civilises this process, that is you'll always have one resource which can be used to compare its worth against others.

This isn't even difficult stuff I'm posting about here, it's a high school level economy course.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:20:41 No.28002914
>>28002891
And then the iPads enslaved mankind.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:21:18 No.28002919

[Missing image file: jim-jones.jpg]
"Sry guys, cash only."

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:21:33 No.28002923
>>28002891
>it came to a point that it was too complicated for humans
To actually build the computers? We're already at that point, there is simply no way you could build a complicated computing architecture with your hands and a soldering iron.

To design the computers? I don't believe AI will ever be capable of that, unfortunately AI are only ever programmed to do what they're programmed. They're obedient to the point of not always useful, any beginner programmer can attest to that: they tell the computer to do one thing and it does EXACTLY what they tell it to do, except it wasn't what they had in mind.

I do agree computing, robotics and mechatronics will replace our need for humans performing menial tasks. One day, we won't need a large lowerclass any more, this is already a reality in some agricultural fields.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:22:14 No.28002933
Do they support the FSF?

>>
sage 2012-10-02 11:22:45 No.28002940
>>28002630

You're a fucking idiot.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:23:57 No.28002953
>>28002940
Explain yourself.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:24:06 No.28002957

[Missing image file: Screen Shot 2012-10-02 at(...).png]
>And we will attack Stalingrad from the side...

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:24:21 No.28002961
>>28002892
i'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of, or why you keep saging.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:25:03 No.28002970

[Missing image file: Screen Shot 2012-10-02 at(...).png]
>meanwhile, at the LEGION OF DOOM...

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:25:56 No.28002981
>>28002940
Why?
If it doesn't work in small-scale, it won't work in large-scale.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:26:05 No.28002982
>>28002961
I'm trying to convince that there is no such thing as a resource based economy, and if you tried to artificially create one, it would tend towards a currency based economy anyway. It's a futile effort.

>sage
Because this isn't technology related. Take it to /pol/

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:26:45 No.28002989
>>28002957
I love how wasteful the city design is in regards to land use, and how stupidly rigid it is. What happens when the population exceeds the city size asshole? What happens when it's under populated too and everyone has to help maintain these empty buildings until there's people to occupy them?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:27:49 No.28003001
>>28002982
It is technology-related.
It's about the mistaken belief that technology can be used to have an effective command economy by simply having the giant mainframe of love control everything.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:28:46 No.28003011
>>28002989
>What happens when the population exceeds the city size asshole?
It doesn't.

Such a society won't have a population growth.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:28:52 No.28003014
>>28002989
Magic technology!
Er, robots and computers will do everything for us in the future.
And rocket cars and space hookers!
Buy my book and DVDs where I explain why money is bad!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:28:59 No.28003018
>>28002957
>>28002970

Who is going to maintain all those plants? Will the supercomputer assign everyone to groundskeeping?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:29:28 No.28003021
>>28003011
They'll do what the Mayans did and "sacrifice" the surplus population to the Gods when the crop fails.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:30:12 No.28003032
>>28003018
nanotech! magic fairy dust!
>TECHNOLOGY WILL SAVE US ALL!
>PRAISE TECHNOLOGY!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:30:42 No.28003036
>>28002923
I think that they created a positronic brain (Asimov's A.I) to design a better brain, which was used to design an even better brain and so on. To the point that it became impossible or feasible for humans to directly control the A.I. Became too complicated for them mathematically, or so I remember. So you were right in a way.
Couldn't an A.I ever develop the capacity for imagination like the human brain?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:30:52 No.28003039
>>28002982
>I'm trying to convince that there is no such thing as a resource based economy
I would not have guessed that. I barely know what a resource based economy is meant to be and gather the concept is incredibly stupid.

>Because this isn't technology related.
yet you're actively contributing to this thread and encourageing the discussion. If you don't like these threads on /g/, post "sage" and sage only or report and leave well enough alone.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:32:32 No.28003064
>>28003032
It will save us, just not today, nor tomorrow or even the day after. Even then, at best technology will let everyone live as if they're actually middle-class (not, deluded prole middle-class), it still won't be a utopia and we'll still have the same problems middle-class people have today.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:33:08 No.28003074
>>28003021
Or population control drugs in the water supply.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:33:39 No.28003083
>>28003064
And I doubt money will go away.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:35:28 No.28003109
>>28003036
>Couldn't an A.I ever develop the capacity for imagination like the human brain?
No.

The human brain is a lot more complex than anything created from silicon and germanium. The only artificial machine capable of what you want is a genetically modified clone, anything else would be simply too inefficient and too complex to design (why reinvent the wheel when the proverbial maker already did?).

In short, if we wanted such a machine, we would move onto biological technology, which would replace electronic based technology. Again, this is an advancement that will occur in many thousands of years.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:36:56 No.28003127
>>28003074
>Or population control drugs in the water supply.
We won't ever need that.

Take a look at the middle-class in western society, exactly what is their fertility rate against the lower class? Strangely, humans reproduce less when there's an abundance of resources.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:37:52 No.28003135
If I was to support an utopical nutwhack, I'd support Paolo Soleri. The man invented the concept of Arcology and actually built himself a little model village out of recycled materials.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:39:02 No.28003154

[Missing image file: 1345531099212.png]
>>28003064
>>28003083
>Resources
>Coined money
>Silver / Gold

They all represent the same thing tbh, just with varying comfort of exchange, storage and legitimacy. They are still a representation of having something of value.

I don't think we need to build green park-like prison cities to make this into a realization. Besides, where would one store all ones resources in one of these small eco houses.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:41:07 No.28003181
I'm too lazy to read the whole threads full of babbies whining but seriously, I see nothing wrong with it.

The Venus Project is supposed to work as long as the whole Earth contributes a globalized control of resources, if you just give them a potato shit won't help. They are forced to use money to actuate their plans until the whole world is ready to chip in and start balancing resources.

It's all or nothing, that's the whole point of the project (and why I think it'd be unfeasible), there's nothing hypocritical in this

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:41:22 No.28003184
>>28003109
>biological technology...an advancement that will occur in many thousands of years.
Sounds like a logical step, who knows when it will occur, at least not in our lifetimes. This conversation has sparked my interest, I'm gonna go look up this shit somewhere, go through Godel, Bach & Escher again.

>>
Steve Ballmer 2012-10-02 11:42:04 No.28003192
>>28003154
Don't worry, I got this great idea:
>Make a huge building with security and shit.
>Store resources there.
>Issue ownership notices of your resources in that vault.

So you can have a slip of paper that says: “This note can be exchanged for 10g gold at Brilliant Arcology's Nomenclature Korporation”.

Then we would all have resources, but not have to barter all the time.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:45:17 No.28003238
>>28003181
Why do they sell their books then? If it supposed to be a global movement, shouldn't they release the information for free? Or do they already do that?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:46:41 No.28003255
>>28003238
They should be handing out digital copies for free, yes (I don't know if they do). However it's not unreasonable to think that a physical book copy would cost some money. It's both to support them and to coup in the printing costs

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:48:32 No.28003274

[Missing image file: 1349075615722.jpg]
>>28003192

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:51:06 No.28003297
>>28003192
Yes, pieces of paper that represent a value guaranteed by an organization...
That has never been tried before!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:52:59 No.28003311
>>28003181
If it doesn't work in small-scale, it won't work in large-scale.
Engineering 101

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:54:25 No.28003324
God you people are dumb, it's not like you'd have a warehouse of resources somewhere that represents your assets. You don't HAVE assets, if you want something you just ask for it and it is given to you. The reason they aren't practicing what they preach is that it's not technologically possible at the moment.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:55:11 No.28003333
>>28003274
>>28003297
>his point
>------------
>your head

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:55:41 No.28003337
>>28003324
>it's not technologically possible to accept resources in place of currency at this time

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:56:00 No.28003341
>>28003324
>You don't HAVE assets
I'm seeing a problem with this idea...

How to convince people not to have stuff?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:56:09 No.28003346
The amount of butthurt here is amazing. They are EDUCATING people, not building cities rigtht now because we are waiting for this society to collapse to start anew.
Please at least watch the movie, Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. Anyone open minded enough should find it a highly plausible solution for ALL worldwide and personal problems.
But until YOU dont sort YOUR BRAIN out, we have nothing to discuss. Work on yourself first, on the society next. A healthy human that has dealt with all his issues first and goes on the internet to discuss, not attack his fellow beings, finds this concept very plausible.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:56:55 No.28003352
>>28003311
but it does work in small scale, there are lots of self-sustained communities that don't need to use money INSIDE them to survive.

The whole point is that it can't work NOW with the outside because it can't rely on not having money to go on, since money is required in today's society.

Don't you get it?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:57:50 No.28003364
>>28003346
>>28003324

>trust us, paradise is coming where you won't need any money.
>meanwhile, give us your money!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:58:13 No.28003368
>>28003352
>self-sustained communities that don't need to use money INSIDE them to survive.
Name one.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:58:19 No.28003371

[Missing image file: 1345100829007.png]
>>28003333
>our ironic humor
>----------
>you

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:58:23 No.28003375
>>28003352
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:58:55 No.28003384
>>28003364
>donates to FSF because he believes in the just cause of free software
>shits on another just cause because lol who needs money xD

yes, I am assuming things

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 11:59:36 No.28003394
>>28003368

The Jonestown facility.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:00:33 No.28003408
>>28003368
You never heard of a self sustained agricultural community?

>>28003375
They still need money to survive in this economy. You can't propose a new economical system and then start following it yourself if the rest of the world shits all over you and ignores you. This will work only if everyone plays by its rules

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:02:14 No.28003421
>>28003341
It works like this:

Robots mine/produce resources
Computer allocates them
Robots build whatever we need
Humans are provided evening they need to live free
If you want something, you ask for it and it is given to you
Humans do whatever they want (supposedly dedicating themselves to higher pursuits, but more likely hedonism)

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:03:59 No.28003433
>>28003346
What the fuck am I reading.

>because we are waiting for this society to collapse to start anew
>we're waiting for everything to break so our system becomes viable, not that our system is intrinsically viable or rationally preferable at any time

>Anyone open minded enough should find it a highly plausible solution for ALL worldwide and personal problems.
>solution for problems
>can't fix the problems, society will collapse

>Work on yourself first, on the society next.
Indeed!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:04:06 No.28003434
>>28003364
they are using money to end money once and for all.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:04:33 No.28003443
>>28003408
Nobody plays by anyone's rules, silly.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:04:34 No.28003444
>>28003421
>Humans do whatever they want
What if I just want to watch the world burn?
But seriously, how would they deal with crime? Robot Judge Dredd?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:05:09 No.28003453
>>28003443
>Nobody plays by anyone's rules, silly.

>hurr what are economical plans

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:05:36 No.28003459
>>28003384
FSF develops software and actively encourages software development.
The Venus Project is an architect commie wannabe sitting in a Florida swamp and dreaming of the day when everything is controlled by a computer and he's root.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:06:30 No.28003467
>>28003444
There's no crime where everyone has everything he needs

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:06:58 No.28003475
>>28003434
Of course they are, dear.
Of course they are.

I offered them $200 in resources and they flat out refused.
That is suspicious in my book.
Not even, "oh, well. buy $200 of booze then," but cash or check only.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:07:28 No.28003481
>>28003467
I get under-aged children to fuck?
Man, bring on the resource economy!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:07:44 No.28003486
>>28003467
That has to be the stupidest idea ever.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:06 No.28003494
>>28003421
And when the resources run out?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:14 No.28003496
>expound the virtues of a resource based economy
>vehemently refuse a resource based exchange
smells like fraud to me

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:23 No.28003497
>>28003475
You don't understand, you didn't offer any resource, you just offered an alternative barter system.

That's not what they are proposing, they didn't have to agree with you in the first place

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:30 No.28003499
>>28003467

I want to watch the world burn.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:30 No.28003500
>>28002630
>get rid of money and have a resource economy instead
Great, so instead of "We're taking all your money for the gov'ment", it's "YOU MUST MINE MORE MINERALS"

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:37 No.28003502
What's so goddamn wrong about money? It's merely a symbollic and incredibly handy way of attributing a concrete value to something. There's nothing wrong about it. It's impossible to conceive a worldwide society without money, unless you were whilling to create world of many little economically-closed city states, which would eventually slow general mankind progress a lot. What is wrong in the current state of affairs, is the structure of economy, and the current unregulated laissez-faire free market model, not money itself. Money it's just a freakin' tool, not the sum of all evils. It's our intentions based on it that vary.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:43 No.28003504
>>28003467
Crimes are not all motivated by economy.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:08:44 No.28003505
>>28003467
The funny thing is that that is something that liberals and commies actually believe.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:09:58 No.28003522
>>28003444
He believes crime springs from a lack of resources and education. I disagree, but I think crime like theft WOULD be eliminated for the most part when you can just ask for whatever you want. They'll never get rid of murders, so I think there would definitely need to be a police force.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:10:09 No.28003524
>>28003497
he offered them anything they wanted that wasn't currency

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:10:36 No.28003531
>>28003467
>There's no crime where everyone has everything he wants
FTFY

I don't need to get laid, I want to get laid, so I follow school girls home from school. Get the picture? Now, has any good ever been done by giving everyone exactly what they want?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:10:43 No.28003534
>>28003500

>Oh hey there, so I wanted to buy a bag of rice
>YOU REQUIRE MORE VESPENE GAS

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:10:58 No.28003536
>>28003497
The Venus Project states that they value resources and resource planning higher than money.
If they cannot plan with their resources, then they are worthless.

For instance, if they had returned to me with "Oh, I looked in our database/Excel/textfile/whatever that we need more pylons, so bring us more pylons" then that would have been proof they are eating their own dogfood.

But they don't.
>Cash or check only.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:11:34 No.28003546
I want a 150-story palace

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:11:43 No.28003547
>2012
>Confusing The Venus Project (technological development) with The Zeitgeist Movement (incompetent cult that wants to destroy money).

Full retard.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:11:46 No.28003550
>>28003524
which has nothing to do with what they are advocating.

He has as much right to complain about them refusing as any other person trying to buy a computer from Dell while offering them spare parts they may need instead of money and then getting refused.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:11:53 No.28003551
>>28003534
>BUILD MORE PYLONS!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:12:24 No.28003559
>>28003547
The Venus Project wants to destroy money as well.
Check their website.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:13:23 No.28003570
>>28003536
>The Venus Project states that they value resources and resource planning higher than money.
>If they cannot plan with their resources, then they are worthless.

But that's wrong, they don't value barter over money, they value a society where there's no need for any of that. It has nothing to do with you trying to barter your way into their society as they are AGAINST barter as much as they are against money

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:17:36 No.28003615
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVOPkGAtt48

>THE POWER OF VOLCANOS

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:18:56 No.28003626
>>28003550
You haven't gotten the point.
They want resources. He offered resources (that is: anything they need for building their magic society). They didn't want resources anymore.

Dell wants money because it's more expensive trying to handle random spare parts. If you ask Dell to handle the spare parts *and* pay them to have a technician actually look at those specific things (at ~100$/hour + travel, shipping, etc), I think you might be able to convince them to do so.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:20:31 No.28003641
>>28003626
no, you don't get it. They don't want resources. They want money and help advocating what they're trying to achieve. The resource-based society is for later on, when the whole world is ready to sustain itself in a free world without the need of economy and money.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:23:18 No.28003670
The "no money" thing is a VERY small part of the whole Venus Project. It's one part I happen to disagree with, and even if feasible, would likely be the last part of the project to be implemented.

In my opinion, the problem isn't money itself. The problem is how it is distributed. Obviously there needs to be some inequality in wealth. A heart surgeon should be paid more than a store clerk. But at some point the disparity becomes too large. What does Rush Limbaugh do? He talks on the radio. That's not a particularly difficult job. Sure, it requires good speaking skills and a strong ability to capture the audience, but it wouldn't be TOO hard to find someone to replace him. Not to mention the world doesn't even NEED that particular job. Yet Rush Limbaugh makes $28 million per year. If we assume a salary of $100,000 for an engineer, Rush makes 280x more. Did Rush do 280x the work? I really don't think he did. So did he actually earn that wealth? In my opinion he did not.

Wealth should measure contribution to society. If a company does well, shouldn't the profits be distributed to the workers (wealth creators) rather than most of it going to some top guy? If the CEO gives himself a salary 100x greater than that of everyone else... isn't he stealing? Isn't THAT redistribution of wealth?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:23:43 No.28003676
http://thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy
Jesus Christ how horrifying.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:24:36 No.28003686
>>28003615
this is the fuckingbasshole who tells me i cant have powerfull computer because i dont "need" it i want to rip his fucking face off fucking happiness ruining fuckwit

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:27:19 No.28003707
So, what are Stallman's view on these nutwhacks?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:27:55 No.28003714
>>28003641
That's like a PETA chairperson wearing leather made from dogs or the Greenpeace chairperson driving a 1 mile/gallon SUV while eating a hamburger made out of whale meat.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:28:51 No.28003723
>>28003641
So that means that they're going to fail even before they started. That's pretty reassuring, considering the large scale failure that any kind of communist government has been.
The "free stuff for anyone" concept just doesn't work as the main integral part in the calculation is forgotten: People are by nature greedy. The percentage of people giving more than they're taking is (in my experience) somewhere below 5%.
Another thing everyone of these guys forgets is that resources are limited. Nobody can ever get "everything he needs". That's plain impossible.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:28:55 No.28003725
>>28003670
And who decides who contributes to society?
Rush's listeners and sponsors disagree with you, so should they be ignored?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:29:34 No.28003732
you guys must be very happy in your plutocracy

>implying you could run a project (that strives for a in a resource-based economy) in a money-based economy without money
>op is just a regular idiot

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:30:47 No.28003753
>>28003676

Why do we need to end money, though? Proper state regulation of the economy would be a lot more feasible and effective.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:31:26 No.28003757
>>28003732
why the hell would you want this?

do you want to be told you cant have soemthing you want because you dont "need" it?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:32:27 No.28003771
>>28003670
>What does Rush Limbaugh do? He talks on the radio.
He does something that people pay money for him to do. Money is property and people can use it how they please. In this case, advertisers pay him for carrying his ads since he attracts quite a few listeners.
>If the CEO gives himself a salary 100x greater than that of everyone else... isn't he stealing? Isn't THAT redistribution of wealth?
No. Workers are paid what they have accepted to be paid. If you want them to be paid more have them stop accepting stupidly low salaries. If they want to continue accepting stupidly low salaries? Their problem.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:33:15 No.28003778
>>28003757
I don't need a lot of things, but I do want some goods and services.
I can drink regular coffee, but I prefer latte.
YOU DON'T NEED THAT MILK AND ESPRESSO!!!
DRINK REGULAR COFFEE!
ALL GLORY TO THE MAINFRAME OF LOVE!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:33:28 No.28003780
>>28003723
>The "free stuff for anyone" concept just doesn't work as the main integral part in the calculation is forgotten: People are by nature greedy.

how can they be greedy when they can have everything they want without limit?

Experience dictates that even the greediest/most-needy person will stop being that if presented with an infinite amount of what he wants. Give a child a cake and he will want more, give a child an infinite amount of cakes and he will stop.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:34:08 No.28003787
>>28003780
He'll want infinity+1.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:34:11 No.28003789
>>28003778
then you would not want the venus project

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:34:36 No.28003794
>>28003771
NO, ONLY THE SUBROUTINE OF WORTHINESS CAN DETERMINE YOUR VALUE TO SOCIETY!
ALL GLORY TO THE MAINFRAME OF LOVE!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:34:40 No.28003795
>>28003757
>do you want to be told you cant have soemthing you want because you dont "need" it?

but that's the fucking opposite of what the Venus Project advocates... Do you have any idea of what you're talking about or are you just assuming things?

The Venus Projects basically advocates a society where everyone can get everything, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING. There's no "need" or "want", just go and get it.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:34:59 No.28003803
>>28003732
You're very, very gullible - and this is coming from someone who frequents /x/. You wouldn't believe how much money the supposed "contactees" make with their books and that is still nothing when compared to the various cults around the globe.

This is bullshit along the lines of Scientology or Ashtar Command, wake the fuck up before you'll find out that money's leaking from your wallet and some fat cat is laughing at you from his Bond-inspired HQ.

Thanks OP, I suspected as much, but your e-mail exchange nailed it. Take care. Also funny to find it on /g/ of all places.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:35:04 No.28003804

[Missing image file: Rush.png]
>>28003725
Oh man, I TOTALLY thought you were talking about something else for a second there

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:35:16 No.28003805
>>28003787
nope

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:35:36 No.28003808
>>28003789
If this is to work, according to its fans, the whole world must convert to their system.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:35:42 No.28003809
>>28003804
that band is garbage

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:35:50 No.28003812
>>28003795
project venus may as well advocate unicorns

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:36:29 No.28003820
>>28003795
My neighbour is a dirty mudslime, I don't want him to have everything. Can I have that?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:37:19 No.28003826
>>28003820
you won't have the concept of "dirty mudslime" in such a society. You won't have such a wish in the first place.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:37:26 No.28003828
>>28003808
but then no one will get what they want only what they need and no one will ever be happy again

>>28003820
racists wouild be killed on sight for thought crimes

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:38:05 No.28003834
>>28003803

This. David Icke lecture tickets are about $40 each. That's a lot of dosh just to hear a british sports commentator talk about lizardmen.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:38:12 No.28003837
>>28003826
Why not?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:38:17 No.28003839
>>28003828
>racists wouild be killed on sight for thought crimes

stop spreading lies

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:38:20 No.28003840
>>28003795
Everyone can get everything?
Nope, there are still finite amounts of resources, unless we go out in space to mine and that's not what The Venus Project is about.

It's just silly utopianism.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:39:04 No.28003845
>>28002661
To me it looks like the Pentagon designed by hippies.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:39:17 No.28003848
if everyone were to have an equal share of all the money in the world, that'd only be 8,851 per person

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:40:47 No.28003867
>>28003840

But the society would be designed in such a way that you would only want manageable things in reasonable amounts, like a bag of sorghum.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:40:52 No.28003869
>>28003837
because the first step toward such a society is to drop the concept of states and nations and nationality. We are all humans living on the same earth, there's no race and there's no prejudice, we will cooperate with each other under a unified "nation" (the earth) and administer all the earth's resources (plenty, far more than we'll ever need/want) with each other.

Yes, it's very idealistic and rather utopian, which is why we're still far far away from such an idea and which is why the Venus Project can't just take off and start living in a "resource based economy" world, it's either all or nothing

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:41:19 No.28003875
>>>/pol/
>>>/new/
>>>/reddit/

Don't come back you piece of motherfucking shit, you don't even know what The Venus Project is about, never read about their objectives and what they want to achieve.

>lel they want money for books and their inventions so they can have money for new technological projects
- You, retarded underage kid

Now kindly, fuck off.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:42:07 No.28003884
>>28003676

>Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war

tl:dr, Fresco believes thousands and thousands of work hours should go unpaid and workers should be exausted all the time, for the sake of the greater, no-money good, just because countries do that during war effort.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:42:10 No.28003885
>>28003848
Chinese, Indians, and Africans aren't real people so that number is much higher.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:42:27 No.28003889
>>28002957
>>28002970
I like you.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:43:02 No.28003900
>>28003867
and this is where my problem with it comes along its mind control i turned off the Disney channel today because it was indoctrinating my niece to think sugary foods are evil

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:43:10 No.28003903
>>28003840
>Nope, there are still finite amounts of resources, unless we go out in space to mine and that's not what The Venus Project is about.

who says we won't? It's a rather futuristic and technological project, going out in space is probably the most feasible objective nowadays.

All in all, if we handle all the resources of the earth under the same banner, if we balance their usage and growth and if we don't waste them in petty things (like wars, for example), then yes, the Earth has plenty of resources for everyone and beyond.

It's just that today you have nations and continents like Africa with literally nothing there and a surplus of stuff in other countries. If you spread out everything picking out the best places to farm said resources, then you will have no problem handling them to the whole population infinitely

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:44:38 No.28003918
>>28003869
Sounds fucking loony, might as well say you'll go colonize Mars and have your society there. Never happening on earth. It almost sounds religious.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:44:40 No.28003922
>>28003803
His "vision:"
By this time Fresco had designed his circular city to be one mile in diameter with radially connected concentric rings "resembling the spokes of a wheel."[73]At the nucleus center, in the dome, was a supercomputer that was intended to function as the centralized data management system for the automated processes throughout the city.

ALL GLORY TO THE SUPERCOMPUTER!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:45:33 No.28003937
>>28003918
yes, I agree with you. It's very far fetched and far from today's reality. But shitting on it regardlessly and calling them hypocrites is rather naive imo

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:45:54 No.28003943
>>28003922

That sounds strangely similar to Logan's Run.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:46:11 No.28003947
>>28003922
>this actually happens
>Fresco's dream comes true
>/g/ decides to help him
>city is built, resources collected, ready to go
>war breaks out over whether to install Gentoo or Plan 9 on the supercomputer
>all goes to hell

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:46:21 No.28003952
>>28003922
so basically he hates porn and privacy?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:46:52 No.28003960
>>28003947

I chuckled

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:47:10 No.28003965
>>28003869
>it's either all or nothing
I don't want socialism and you don't have the right to force it upon me.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:47:55 No.28003977
>>28003848
what, source on this?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:47:55 No.28003979
>>28003947
BSD, you morons!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:48:12 No.28003986
>>28003965
and this, gentlemen, is why we still have to work on educating the world before trying to "barter" our way into fresco's mansion

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:48:43 No.28003991
>>28003803
>you´re very very gullible
>i frequent /x/

what am i reading

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:49:15 No.28003997
>>28003505
>Liberal, commies

Liberalism support ideas such as capitalism (either regulated or not), constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free press, free and fair elections, human rights, and the free exercise of religion.[3][4][5][6][7]

Communism is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production[1][2]

Back to /pol/ with you

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:50:23 No.28004018
>>28003965
Socials-Communism is an idea that only ever existed on the paper and nowhere else, because it's so perfect, you ignorant amerifat scum. It wasn't applied in any system known to our civilization, USSR never was using a Communism as their system. Educate yourself, idiot.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:52:28 No.28004050
>>28004018
I wasn't talking about communism; I was talking about socialism.
I don't mind communism, because the neat thing about it is that it's voluntary. Marx said nothing about forcing communism on people, which is why I don't hate it or fear it. Socialism, on the other hand, is often applied with an iron fist.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:52:53 No.28004055
>>28004018
>No true Scotsman...
>Failed socialism was never REAL socialism.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:53:39 No.28004065
>>28004018
>humans attempt to make communist states
>fail
lel

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:53:40 No.28004066
>>28003997
So you know how to use Wikipedia. Good for you.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:54:06 No.28004069
>>28003965
If the majority wants socialism who are you to question their will.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:54:39 No.28004078
>>28003991
A fool calling another fool out on his stupidity, the ultimate insult. Also, just because I wrote "I frequent" doesn't mean "I take everything at face value". I've met Daniken in person and he's a really nice guy, but that doesn't mean his books aren't full of shit.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:54:57 No.28004081
>>28004069
I am, as an individual.
I'll be damned if I let my liberty fall to mob rule.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:55:22 No.28004087
>>28004069
Then they can have their socialism and leave me out of it. You're a moron if you think a capitalist free enterprise system doesn't allow for communes; it allows for any enterprise a person or collective wishes to invent for themselves.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:55:30 No.28004090

[Missing image file: 4343.jpg]
>>28004069
>tyranny of the majority

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:56:41 No.28004106
>>28004050
What about Democratic Socialism

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:58:16 No.28004128
>>28004106
Democracy is also an iron fist, when it takes liberties to seize personal property.
Mob rule, tyranny of the majority, etc.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 12:59:54 No.28004147
>>28004128
Anarchist Communism?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:00:47 No.28004162
>>28003937
They are hypocrites.
If they cannot prove their system works, either as a simulation or as a small-scale model, then it's bullshit and they're just looking for money for their legion of doom HQ.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:00:47 No.28004163
>>28004055

I'm sorry but that is not a no true scotsman fallacy, because plenty of right wing dictators also seized power for the sake of democracy and people's freedom. By your logic, democracy as a whole would also be a lie, simply because some people took advantage of it to seize power. Mishaps related with particular individuals or corrupt governments do not account for an ideal or political philosophy as a whole.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:01:36 No.28004177

[Missing image file: 1348753988801.gif]
>>28003615
>[by ~1989], our society will go down as the lowest development in man
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:01:48 No.28004183

[Missing image file: 1-doom.jpg]
>>28003803
>Bond
>Not Lex Luthor

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:02:00 No.28004185
>>28004147
Sounds good, since that's not forceful.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:03:42 No.28004205
>>28004106
Socialism always turns to pathological altruism after a few decades.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:04:16 No.28004212
>>28004065
>>28004055
No one ever applied a non-modified idea of communism to any country nor a state in our world. Modified social-communist ideas that were applied in USSR, China and other shit countries in the past were all MODIFIED and merely based on the original idea of communism, not even following the main idea, I'm sick of your ignorance.

The Venus Project is a complete change of that, it also doesn't use a clear idea of communism, but if you actually read and understood what does Fresco mean, you wouldn't be arguing about this here. Educate yourself, you lack it.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:04:35 No.28004215
>>28004185
I would imagine that there would be violence to over though the governments and turn the world into a property-less commune

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:06:33 No.28004236
>>28004205
Fun fact, Communist states make unemployment illegal. Not to mention if industry becomes more and more automated what are we going to do for jobs.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:06:47 No.28004243
>>28004163
If all implementation attempts have failed so far, then it's safe to say that it's a failure so far.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:07:28 No.28004252
>>28004236
There's no such thing as a communist state.
Only tyrannical, socialist states.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:07:43 No.28004257
>>28004212
So far, the implementations have been a failure.
Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:07:44 No.28004258
>>28004212
I think you should go and read what No True Scotsman fallacy is.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:09:01 No.28004280
>>28004163
>Socialism is great!
>What about the USSR and Mao's China?
>No TRUE SOCIALIST STATE is like that.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:09:53 No.28004293
>>28004258
Argument still stands. Get your fallacies out of this board.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:10:10 No.28004300
>>28004212
But people tried. You see that don't you? They created a system for the purpose of Communism, and it failed. Massively.

Were the Russian revolutionaries, under the banners of Bakunin and Kropotkin, with their democratic Soviets any less GENUINE than this movement here? If you want to invest absolute power in other men to tell men how to direct their lives, are you so sure a Stalin won't come and icepick a modern Trotsky?

>It's different this time, I promise!
>Those ideas were all modified and exploited, it wont happen the same this time!

In any event, the ideas themselves are sickening. A complete rollback of the free enterprise system which has flourished since the 18th century? Fuck no.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:13:53 No.28004369
>>28004300
Do you know what's the real, basic idea of a communism that is known to us for centuries?
Everyone should be equal, EVERYONE. It never was applied in any fucking system, so stop your bullshit. If a system that claims to be communist and doesn't even use the VERY BASIC idea, its fundamental, then how you dare to call it a communist state at all?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:14:10 No.28004371
>>28004243

They didn't fail per se, as you still have socialist governments running strong, despite having many powerful enemies in the western world. They simply went astray, much like what happened with modern democracies, who simply turned into the bastion of corporate and big money interests. Fact is no political ideology is perfect. They just have different vulnerabilities. While western democracies are economically frail and prone to influence from lobbying and interest groups, socialist-inpired governments tend to be politically unstable and often spawn selfish dictators who get blinded by their own vision, though they're far more economically reliable than any democratic government. Fascism, on the other hand, it's like both of these vulnerabilities put together: it's not only based on ultra-centralized power, it's also extremely influenced by big money interests.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:14:53 No.28004386
>>28004280
The way I see it, you take socialist market economy, or you take not having a job.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:15:00 No.28004391
>>28004300
From the Project Venus website:
>Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems.

>yfw they want the Government to tell you if you can manufacture spoons or not

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:17:49 No.28004439
>>28004391
>variety of spoons means more freedom.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:18:06 No.28004442
>>28004391
More like they want you only to manufacture the highest possible quality products and only them, to make them serve for you for a very long time and not waste resources later on maintaining it, making new ones, and making worse ones, idiot. Today almost every product is designed to be broken after short amount of time.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:20:47 No.28004486
>>28004442
No alternative design allowed!
No pokemon chopsticks!
ALL GLORY TO THE SUPERCOMPUTER OF LOVE!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:21:07 No.28004494
>>28004369
It's remarkable how you're shouting at me for being educated when you think the revolutionaries in the aftermath of the events of 1917 stood around fiddling with their penises. The early Soviet Union was one of the most progressive states ever in existence, and I would expect a Communist to be aware of that.

>>28004439
Being able to make what you want and apply your mind or hands to whichever task pleases you means more freedom.
>>28004442
Then stop buying those products. They only exist because people buy them. They exist because they obviously serve some portion of the population, even if they don't serve you.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:21:48 No.28004504
>>28004280

The same could be said about every other form of government. This is why ideology differs from individuals who put in practice. You can't make an ideology responsible for the actions of an asshole. That's like me coming over to your house to beat the crap out of you and say I did it in name of jehova's witnesses. Could you blame jehova's witnesses for having your ass handed to you by a random stranger?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:24:04 No.28004534
>>28004494
Great, make all the spoons you want, they're just not going to be made in their factories.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:25:07 No.28004554
>>28004534
Naturally I would have my own factories with hired workers. Or am I not allowed to own property now or have contracts with other people?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:28:22 No.28004603
>>28004494
First , I'm not a Comunist and never was a one, just defending simple concepts.
Second,
>Then stop buying those products. They only exist because people buy them. They exist because they obviously serve some portion of the population, even if they don't serve you.
Do you know why people buy low quality products instead of high quality? Do you know why people buy CHEAP things, instead of EXPENSIVE things?
That's right. Low-quality products are more PROFITABLE buying them, it's all about money, and I expect you to know that. Why would anyone buy a shitty 19" LCD TN Monitor when they can get an S-PVA with a lot of functions, better diameter and such.
Profit and money, being the things that hold us back.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:28:43 No.28004608
>>28004391
haha oh wow
do people actually believe this

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:28:43 No.28004609
Jacque Fresco is my hero.
Just woke up.
Didn't read, but it looks like this thread is full of bakas.
No surprises here.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:29:56 No.28004626
>>28004554
You just can't use government resources on your frivolous projects. This includes electricity.

You remember the whole "We built it" rally at the RNC, it's like that. Get your own power generators, money and resources and you can do anything within the zoning bylaws.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:30:34 No.28004635
>>28004391
Sounds like communism with 70's version of future buildings

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:30:54 No.28004640
>>28004626
>Resources between concentrated in the hands of the few is awful, share with all!
>Concentrate resources in the hands of a council to decide which projects are frivolous or otherwise
lel

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:31:23 No.28004646
>>28002630
Plz donate $500,000 to P.O box fly by night vaporware. That old faggot is just trying to sell you dreams that'll never happen.

Besides logans run shows us what happens when shit like this is done

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:33:06 No.28004670
>>28004603
>people trying to benefit themselves holds us back
>no Communist state anywhere according to you, entire 20th century of advancement
I'm ok with this.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:37:09 No.28004717
>>28004504
No, but when ALL Jehova's witnesses have beaten the crap out of me, then I can make the reasonable statement that all Jehova's witnesses so far have been assholes.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:37:40 No.28004727
>>28004640
You vote the people on councils, don't you? Democracy 101, the will of the people is reflected by their government's actions.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:42:59 No.28004797
>>28004727
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_%28council%29#Russian_Revolution_of_1917

I'd much rather resources remain distributed, and therefore in private hands, than concentrated into the hands of a few stately elite.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:44:33 No.28004828
>>28004727
>the will of some people is reflected by the government, onto everybody
FTFY

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:45:26 No.28004835
>>28004640
ALL GLORY TO THE COUNCIL OF 9!

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:46:27 No.28004847
>>28004626
But there will be no money in the glorious venus future.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:47:38 No.28004866
>>28004797
>Originally, the soviets were a grassroots effort to practice direct democracy.
my sides

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:48:15 No.28004875
>>28004717

Not all communist governments have oppressed their people either. Pre-stalin russia didn't, the paris commune didn't, even Venuzuela doesn't nowadays. And even if they did, the ideology itself was not to be blamed, since there is nothing in the marxist guidelines that promotes the oppression of people, just like you can't blame Jesus for the later crimes of the catholic church. The same couldn't be said about fascism, for instance, given that it constitutionally strips civil rights from imigrants and declares them as non-citizens right off the bat.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:49:41 No.28004897
>>28004875
>communist governments
>implying there's such a thing

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:51:12 No.28004918
>cult

I don't think you know what that word means.

Not video games.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:51:21 No.28004921
>>28004866
With village and factory soviets as a base, there arose a vast pyramid of district, cantonal, county and regional soviets, each with its executive soviet. Over and above these stood the “All-Russian Soviet Congress,” which appointed an “All-Russian Central Executive Committee” of not more than 200 members, which in turn chooses the “Soviet of People's Commissaries” — the Ministry. Beginning with a minimum of three and maximum of 50 members for smaller communities, the maximum for town soviets was fixed at 1,000 members. The soviet system was seen as an alternative to parliamentary systems for administering republican governments.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:51:46 No.28004925
I like the idea of a Stackexchange style of government where the people most interested, contributive, and knowledgeable in their fields have more say.
With the network, we no longer need a representative style government, we can represent ourselves.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:56:48 No.28004989
>>28004897

communism isn't anti government

it's anti capitalism, or more precisely private ownership of the land and labor.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 13:59:19 No.28005029
>>28004989
keep your hands off my land and labour
>>28004921
>there arose a vast pyramid
astute choice of word

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:00:30 No.28005046
>>28005029
>thinks you can own land
getaloadofthisguy.jpg

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:01:14 No.28005058
>>28003421
Yeah, that's not realistic or sustainable.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:02:09 No.28005078
>>28004989
Communism shouldn't need government.
The minute you have a "communist government", you've already failed. You're just another socialist douche.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:02:19 No.28005080

[Missing image file: 1346148528248.jpg]
>>28005046
>thinks you can't own land

How's life in the soviet union?

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:03:10 No.28005094
>>28005078

>no government

anarchy isn't communism

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:04:52 No.28005113
>>28003467
Just plain wrong. Crime will never be eliminated so long as people still want things they cannot have. Talk about everyone having resources all you want, but there's more to human desires than ownership of goods.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:05:05 No.28005120
>>28005094
No, but communism is anarchy. This "true communism" you people are crying about shouldn't need government. Marx didn't want it to have government because government fucks it up, like we saw in Russia.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:15:22 No.28005292
>>28005120

>Marx didn't want it to have government because government fucks it up, like we saw in Russia.

Don't talk about shit you don't know. Marx legitimizes government in a pre-communist state. A "true" communist state is indeed government-less, BUT that is only the very final stage of the implementation of communism. Before that, a government is necessary to make sure everything goes according to plan.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:15:56 No.28005306
>>28005120
>communism is anarchy

no, only the anarchist communist part which isn't all of communism

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:19:23 No.28005366
>>28003869
>because the first step toward such a society is to drop the concept of states and nations and nationality. We are all humans living on the same earth, there's no race and there's no prejudice, we will cooperate with each other under a unified "nation" (the earth) and administer all the earth's resources (plenty, far more than we'll ever need/want) with each other.

That is so laughably naive and incorrect I'm not sure if it's funny or sad. There is no way in hell that all of the old grudges, old hatreds, will be forgotten easily enough for this to be possible.

Look at the situation we have in places like Africa and the Middle East where nations were created in geographical locations that contained different tribes that don't like each other. Did any of these tribes unite with the other tribes that are now of the same nation and work together for their common good? No, they fought each other more.

The whole world would not unite. It would tear itself apart.

>>
Anonymous 2012-10-02 14:26:57 No.28005459
tl;dr

is a singularity era proposal, OP

money is like slavery in the medieval times. eventually we'll get rid of this idiocy







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