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/n/ Transportation

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Anonymous 2015-01-04 03:42:39 No.767839

[Missing image file: ]

What are some (hardmode: North American) cities with good design, and a well-integrated transit system?

Something that has a nice balance between cars, bikes, pedestrians, commuter trains, light rail, rapid transit, etc. (ideally, a little bit of everything)


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Anonymous 2015-01-04 03:49:13 No.767841
>>767839
seattle has pretty good mix of everything.

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Anonymous 2015-01-04 03:51:29 No.767842
>>767841
How bad is traffic?

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Anonymous 2015-01-04 04:18:36 No.767859
>>767839
>>767841
Yeah I lived in the seattle area for awhile, it's your best bet
>super bike friendly
>really good bus system
>metro, streetcar, monorail, trains
The design is pretty nice, and it's a good city for driving and walking around (compared to most cities)

only problem i can think of is theres some hills that can be a problem for cyclists.

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Anonymous 2015-01-04 14:29:09 No.767994
Madrid.
That city has a fucking amazing network of expressways for cars, a huge metro system and the central areas are pedestrian-friendly. It strikes the right balance between all modes of transportation and it's neither claustrophobic and narrow like most Euro cities nor obscenely sprawled out like American suburbia.

It really is an underrated city when it comes to infrastructure and urbanism, but let's not forget in the last 15 or so years the Spanish government and the EU spent an awful lot of money in it and not all of it was sustainable. The Spanish motorways are particularly unprofitable, so it really makes you wonder whether it's possible to have the best of both words without spending more than what you have, or if we just have to deal with it and pick one model over another.

Also, it's easy to use cities like Zurich or Vienna as case studies, but these are relatively small cities. Madrid has 6 million people in its urban area and I can't think of any other city that big that manages its transport so well.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:24:39 No.768172
>>767839
It's usually hard to balance between cars (or motorbikes) and other types of transportation, especially mass transit. If using you car is attractive, few people will use buses or trains. And bad traffic and difficulty to park are one of the main reasons why public transit can be practical.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:29:05 No.768177
>>767994
Well, if you bankrupt your country to build one of the largest subways in the whole world, which on top of everything is slow as fuck because of many stations close by and running at 6 to 8 minute intervals during peak hours, well yeah, you have a great balance. Except on your bank account.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:31:17 No.768178
>>767994
>Also, it's easy to use cities like Zurich or Vienna as case studies, but these are relatively small cities. Madrid has 6 million people in its urban area and I can't think of any other city that big that manages its transport so well.
Uh.... Hong Kong, NYC, Paris, Seoul, Taipei, Tokyo....

>>
Ithaqua 2015-01-05 01:40:19 No.768180
New York. Subways,buses,commuter rail. Light rail in Jersey. Decent traffic except rush hour and certain expressways,ie Cross Bronx and Gowanus. Manhattan is murder to drive in though it has bike lanes. Both have to share with heavy pedestrian traffic.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:41:38 No.768181
>>768178
>Hong Kong
>NYC
>Paris
Those cities are absolute shit-tier for car journeys

>Seoul
>Taipei
Not familiar with those

>Tokyo
Good point, but the toll price to use their shuto network is ridiculous, can anyone but the very rich even afford to commute by car in that city?

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:43:04 No.768182
>>768181
I wasn't referring to OP's question, but to that faggot saying that he couldn't think of any other large city except Madrid that could handle good public transportation.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:43:14 No.768183
Any noteworthy /n/ systems in canadian cities?

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:46:04 No.768185
>>768182
Well you should learn to read then, because I never mentioned public transportation, I said "that manages its transport so well". Notice the absence of the word "public" there? It means I was referring to all modes of transport which is what this thread is about.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:48:37 No.768187
>>768177
Me again. Pic related.

Dear god I hate Madrid so much for wasting those shit tons of money. They could have had trams running down every other avenue and still have loads of cash left, but NOOOO, you had to prove to everyone how fucking tiny your dick is by having what is probably the most underused subway ever. Fucking retard Spaniards only know how to waste money on useless subways.

Ffs >>767994 even said that it's not claustrophobic nor narrow, why the fuck would it make sense to build all those expensive tunnels?

also yes I mad(rid)

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:49:37 No.768188
>>768185
How is having a useless oversized subway and constant traffic jams "managing transport so well"? Have you ever been to madrid or are you just blind and deaf?

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 01:50:38 No.768189
>>768187
forgot pic because i'm mad as hell

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 02:00:15 No.768193
>>767839

Montreal.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 02:04:11 No.768194
>>768188
I actually mentioned the cons of having that kind of transport network as it is costly and unsustainable here >>767994

And yes I've been there many times and in many other large cities (except anywhere in Africa) and if you disregard the finances, I can't think of any similar-sized city that offers so many comfortable options on how to commute.

And Madrid's traffic jams are really nothing compared to other European cities, most of which are severely lacking in individual motor vehicle infrastructure. London hasn't seen any new expressways or significant road improvements being made since the 80s, even though the city's population increased by 20% ever since. Madrid may be wasteful but you gotta give them props for not giving in to the bullshit dogma that bus and cycle lanes plus cattle transport everywhere are the future of cities.

All the large urban areas in Europe are being tailored to cater for young single hipsters and low-income people and I think it is a pretty retarded path that will make talent and skilled workers move elsewhere. Public transport enthusiasts can bitch all they want, but if you're married and have kids, an American or Madrid-style city is a far more comfortable place to live than the overcrowded, collectivised city models you see in northern Europe.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 03:02:08 No.768204
>>768194
Yeah, just look at how Switzerland is full of young single hipsters and low income people.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 03:15:02 No.768210
>>768204
Except Switzerland's largest city is as big as Stoke-on-Trent.

The anti-car, anti-suburb movement that took a hold of Europe has made the continent's largest cities unlivable for young families. It is a mantra repeated by "architects" and "experts" who live in their ivory towers and don't know what it's like to rely on cycle lanes and buses or live in dense flats with prohibitive parking when you have 3 small children. The entire model is fucked up, minimalist and focused on adults who live with their parents or share a house with strangers well into their 30s.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:17:15 No.768239
>>768227
He just wants everyone who's not him to take the bus in the city without bus lanes and ride a bike in the city without bike lanes so he can drive his car without traffic jams. Master urban planning!

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:23:14 No.768243
>>768210
>Except Switzerland's largest city is as big as Stoke-on-Trent.
So? Do people not take their kids on the trams and trains there or something? Why can you take your kids on public transit in small cities and not large ones? Is it forbidden or something like that? What about poor families who can't afford cars? Do they eat their kids because otherwise they can't go to the supermarket?

You sound somehow butthurt about using public transport with families, where I live I see this all the time on buses and subways, nothing special about it. And as for wanting to use a car to move about with children, usually buildings have garages below where you can keep one car. Thing is just that, you don't really need to have 3 cars if it's only needed to move around with the children, one will do just fine, even if it means taking a little longer than taking transit. Dad can still take the subway to work, he's not taking the kids there with him. Really, if you think families with children are the reason we need to center our mobility on cars, you must be seriously daft.

also
>yurop
>children
>not full of old people

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:25:38 No.768245
>>768227
Smaller city means shorter travel distances between work, school, groceries, home etc and it also means less crowded transport. You can live in a decent house in Zurich and still not be too far from everything else. If you wish to live in a decent house in London or Paris you will inevitably be further away from everything else and will probably have to ride public transport for a much longer time and with far more people in it since car journeys are increasingly less of an option in Europe, unless you're a millionaire who can pay for a luxury flat in the central area or if you live in some one bed studio or a flat share. If you can't understand why reliance on public transport in a large city is completely different from doing the same in a small city, there really isn't a point in carrying on with this discussion as I can only assume you're playing dumb.

As for "poor families who can't afford cars", it's just a further example of Europe's war on cars. Cars have never been as cheap as they are now, the only factors that make them unaffordable are things like road taxes or parking charges. Have you seen the price of a used car? A family would need to be way below the poverty line, borderline homeless to not be able to afford one. Even the poorest trailer trash in America is able to own a car because the government there doesn't make it prohibitive. Regardless, I feel sorry for those families.

Try doing weekly shopping for a family of 5 on public transport. It's easy to be dismissive of things when your diet consist of noodles and frozen chicken for one.

>b-but they don't need to go all the way to a supermarket, they must buy local, on foot :^)
Before you post something along those lines, leave your basement and realise that local shopping is actually expensive as fuck when you need to feed 5 people with proper non-vegan nutrition.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:30:33 No.768246
>>768243
>also
>yurop
>children
>not full of old people

Yes Jeez, I wonder why Europeans are taking increasingly longer to leave their parents homes and start a family, which has in turn resulted in a demographic timebomb.
Could the unprecedented shortage of affordable homes bigger than a shoebox have played a role in this?

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:32:03 No.768249
>>768243
>usually buildings have garages below where you can keep one car
In large yuro cities? Lol absolutely fucking bullshit. You're lucky if your local authority allows you to park on the backstreet.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:36:34 No.768251
>>768245
>Smaller city means shorter travel distances between work, school, groceries, home etc and it also means less crowded transport.
Those people taking commuter or regional trains with their families must've been a mirage then.

> If you wish to live in a decent house in London or Paris you will inevitably be further away from everything else
Why? If people live there, won't there be shops and restaurant, like in smaller cities? What is it that you need to go with your kids that's so far away? You may be far away from the kid's school, where a bus can take them, and from work where, again, you're not taking your kids.

>As for "poor families who can't afford cars", it's just a further example of Europe's war on cars
So poor people are a mirage, too. the more you know...

>Try doing weekly shopping for a family of 5 on public transport.
Again, I said you can have a car, just not three. Do you need three cars to do your shopping? Because fuck, everyone I know does just fine with one car.

>leave your basement and realise that local shopping is actually expensive as fuck when you need to feed 5 people with proper non-vegan nutrition.
Oh, so weird vegan shops are going to be close by, and regular supermarkets are miles away. What the fuck kind of city do you live in, mate? Where I live there's plenty of supermarkets, even in low density areas where any middle class family can afford a decent sized flat or small house. Ffs do you live on an estate in the middle of nowhere? Like THAT'S how regular families live.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:39:36 No.768254
>>768246
So people in Europe don't start families not because there's no job opportunities and the economy is in ruins, it's all because they can't drive their kids around in cars! It all makes sense now! Stop the presses, we have the solution for all of Europe's problems, it's too much public transit and not enough cars! It's so simple, and nobody thought of it!

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:40:43 No.768255
>>768249
uwot? Every apartment block I know has a parking garage below, except maybe very old ones in the city center.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:47:49 No.768258
>>768245
Buddy, there's no discussion going on, you're just angry because things are the way they are. If you want a nice house for your family so you can have more than one car and rely on it to go everywhere, you're just going to have to live 50km away from a dense city, because everyone wants to live there. :^) And why do you want to replace a system to cope with overcrowding with an even more shit one? Suburbs are shit places for kids to live in. Far away from school, far away from fun spots, far away from everything, reliance on mummy and daddy to take you here and there. People don't live in suburbs because they want to, they live there because they can't afford to live closer to town, it's not a dream lifestyle.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:50:51 No.768259
>>768254
>So people in Europe don't start families not because there's no job opportunities and the economy is in ruins
This trend was observed way before the financial crisis back when most European countries were experiencing solid growth.

>all because they can't drive their kids around in cars!
If you want to put it that way, go for it. The housing shortage is closely related to the lack of investment in individual transport. When a developer builds new housing, the local government usually restricts the amount of parking available. A lot of planning permissions are only given when the constructor makes arrangements to not increase traffic in the area which is essentially not providing parking spaces within the new development. Because of that, new developments are rarely marketed at families and are instead sliced up into tiny flats with 1 or 2 bedrooms. It's a self-feeding cycle.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 04:59:51 No.768263
>>768259
You're just talking out your ass now. Go to bed.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 05:08:05 No.768266
>>768255
Yea no, European housing stock is old as fuck, most don't have a private car park and parking has been restricted in nearby streets over the last couple decades.

http://www.europeanclimate.org/documents/LR_%20CbC_study.pdf

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 05:09:35 No.768267
>>768265
town housing in europe is old and didn't have parking spots -- and people still had lots of babies back in the 60s.

stop city-shaming, cis scum!

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 05:17:22 No.768271
>>768258
>you're just going to have to live 50km away from a dense city, because everyone wants to live there
lol I never said that was an issue. The issue is restricting people who wish to live that far away from using private transport.

>And why do you want to replace a system to cope with overcrowding with an even more shit one? Suburbs are shit places for kids to live in.
And you say it's shitty based on what exactly? Last time I checked American (when no niggers around), Canadian and Australian cities with their suburbs were far more pleasant places to live than large European cities. The percentage of young people who start families in those different places is proof of that.

>People don't live in suburbs because they want to, they live there because they can't afford to live closer to town
People in Europe don't share flats and live in shoe boxes because they want to, they live there because they can't afford to live anywhere else. Living in the suburbs because of a lack of option is much better than living in subpar, overcrowded dwellings because of a lack of option. Of course you can't see that because you're a hipster who thinks your gentrified ground-level studio with a cycle rack is the coolest thing ever.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 05:33:41 No.768276
>>768271
>The issue is restricting people who wish to live that far away from using private transport.
So you propose restricting the quality of life of the people living inside the town so you have parking spaces and extra traffic lanes? Sounds legit.

>were far more pleasant places to live than large European cities.
I'd prefer raising my kids in Berlin or in a small village by the countryside. Cities have cinemas, museums, music stores, concert halls, coffee shops, parks, bike lanes. Villages have rivers, forests, wild animals, farms, room to explore, fresh air. What do american suburbs have? They try to be both, but they're really nothing, it's just a vast, sprawling dormitory.

>People in Europe don't share flats and live in shoe boxes because they want to
they still have the chance to live in the suburbs, and they still won't.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 05:35:44 No.768278
>>768276
>they still have the chance to live in the suburbs, and they still won't.
No, they don't. A suburban home is far less affordable to a European family than to an American one. Just compare their prices, for fuck's sake.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 05:47:40 No.768284
>>768278
>A suburban home is far less affordable to a European family than to an American one
Keep talking out of your ass so you can justify why your views don't match reality. You're going to find villas/semi-detached housing at the very least for the same price of a 1-bedroom apartment in the city center within 50km of it.
young-people-don't-want-to-live-that-far-away-from-the-city-center. in fact, they only do it if they have kids, because they're forced to.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 07:09:22 No.768294
>>768183
montreal
and as for both global and NA
once again montreal

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 09:58:18 No.768320
Copenhagen, Denmark

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 13:16:04 No.768340
>>767839
Montreal is pretty good.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 21:04:50 No.768426
San Franscico and much of Silicon Valley has bike lanes on all major streets.

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Anonymous 2015-01-05 23:19:21 No.768456
>>768426
I was in SF once and was quite impressed by it's decent public transportation (at least for a city in the US), while there was still a certain abundance of cars. I only moved about in the city center though, so I wouldn't know if commuting is more of a pain in the ass.

>>
Anonymous 2015-01-05 23:26:43 No.768460
>>768456
there are too many cars in SF, trying to find parking anywhere is difficult to impossible. but it doesnt matter if you got bike lanes on every street because you can avoid it.







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