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/tg/ Traditional Games

Warning: All the content of this page originally come from 4chan.org. This is only a partial archive made to avoid destruction. Some posts and images may be missing. All the messages below have been posted by anonymous users and we do not guarantee any truth of what they said.
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Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:38:28 No.25249388

[Missing image file: sword_art_online___kirito_by_wes229(...).jpg]

So, I want to run a game based on Sword Art Online.

To those not familiar with the series, it's a near-future setting, where the characters are player characters in an MMO that uses VR equipment that reads directly from the brain's nerve responses (and can prevent selectively prevent them from reaching the rest of the body, so you don't flail around like a ninny while playing) (Obvious red flag #1).

Only 10,000 copies of the game are released on the first day, and it only had 1,000 beta testers (obvious red flag #2). Predictably enough, the evil developer has disabled logout in the release version, and the game will fry the brains of anyone who has their VR equipment forcibly removed, or dies in the game. The dev claims that he will re-enable logout only if players manage to complete all content in the game.

tl;dr, 10,000 people are trapped in a game that will kill them if their character dies.

Obviously, I don't intend to tell my players that caveat of the game until it's already started.


So, on to my question: I'd like the game to be a jobless system, such that players can rebuild their characters at any time, for a token in-game currency fee; character death should always be a major thing in this setting, not something one does just to start a new character. I'd also like to evoke, if not necessarily emulate, the ridiculous bloat of MMO leveling.

A d% system with major penalties or bonuses for level disparity is my current standing idea, as the only thing gaining levels does in an MMO is, typically, allow you to be on-par with creatures that have a slightly larger number beside their name. Further ideas would be appreciated.


>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:40:03 No.25249429

[Missing image file: respecting the elderly.jpg]
>SAO
them's fighting words around here

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:42:47 No.25249476
The best advice you will ever get:
Pick a system that already exists.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:43:19 No.25249491
>posting SOA

where the hell do you think you are

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:46:03 No.25249554
>2 years worth of semen made a gloping noise asuna vagina I'd have to use that

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:57:20 No.25249785
>>25249388
>Posting SAO on /tg/
God DAMN you are brave. I'm going to give you a serious answer because even though I think SAO is mediocre at its best arcs and its fanbase ass at all times, I like your chops.

So here's the thing, you want a classless system, and the simplest and easiest one to use is nWoD. Now, here's the problem with that--it doesn't reflect a primary aspect of SAO, which is "hey I've got 20 levels on you--you can't touch me." And any system that reflects this well? 100% Class based.

Here's what I recommend you do. Take nWoD and crank it up to 11. Start off your characters with 1 dot in all physical mental and social stats and 0 dots in every single skill. Cut EXP of increasing dots into 1/2th of their original cost, and quadruple the maximum dots (5 to 20). Then, make it so every singe exp you spend (not dot you gain, exp you spend) gives you an additional health level. To balance this out, add items and weapons that add a retarded amount of damage on hit.

You'll need to change skills around (swap out firearms and melee with shit like sword and mace, swap out computer and biology with shit like item knowledge and monster knowledge), but you'll have something classless and fairly workable.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:58:55 No.25249812
>>25249785
>crank nwod up to 11
>1 dot in all stats and 0 in every skill
>thats just baseline nwod

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 02:59:49 No.25249824
>>25249812
You missed the "50% discount on all XP costs" and "free health upgrade for every purchase" parts.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:00:23 No.25249830
>>25249812
I'm pretty sure you didn't read the rest of my post.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:01:31 No.25249850
>>25249824
>>25249830
but why even say that part if it's not cranked up to 11?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:02:45 No.25249879
>>25249850
Because character creation rules explicitly say you get more than that? I can get the book out if you want.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:03:05 No.25249887
>>25249554
I think FATAL is the only system that lets you calculated 2 years worth of semen gloping in vaginas.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:05:16 No.25249940
>>25249879
oh you're not adding the dots in chargen
but, starting everyone off as cripples? why?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:07:23 No.25249984
>>25249940
Because it fits setting. Your abilities are what the game says they are--not what you can do--which is a flat nothing across the board at chargen.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:15:47 No.25250192

[Missing image file: 23145435435.jpg]
>mfw SAO
.Hack// has trained me to expect everything to go terribly wrong when you involve a VR game that you plug yourself into.

Also your waifu is actually a program and will attempt to kill you.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:16:31 No.25250204
>>25249984
...aaaaaand now that I think about it, you probably want to remove all social stats and skills too, since it wouldn't fit thematically.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:17:30 No.25250224
Use Cyberpunk 2020, for the inevitable response that you'll get from your players - they will want to play a scrappy team of Tokyo Metropolitan Police investigators tracking down the greatest cyber-criminal in history.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:33:44 No.25250570

[Missing image file: 1364361647290.gif]
>>25249429
>>25249491
>>25249785
Not!OP, but okay, I'll bite- why DOES /tg/ dislike SAO?

Not going to defend the series here or scream about taste and/or OPINIONSSS, I'm just honestly curious. Is it the SAO setting, its inconsistencies or the sudden Fairy Dance arc? The "villain's" motivations and methods of operation? The characters or the fact that the original writer sometimes went down a checklist of light novel tropes? Or is the fanbase really that bad?

Also just going to throw this out here- if given the chance, how WOULD /tg/ improve the setting?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:35:16 No.25250606
Okay, OP here. Have no idea what's with the SAO thing, but I'm probably gonna either wait for OVA to come out and use that, or throw the actual mechanics to the curb and use FATE or something.

Sorry for the trouble. I won't bring it up again.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 03:39:47 No.25250724
>>25250570
I don't know about /tg/, but the reason is similar to >>25250192. The mystery of what the problem was going to be was obvious from the gate, as was the antagonist's motivations. Add in the unnecessary of self-interested assholes and wha-bam, it's generic anime cereal. The entire story is a check list, and the only interesting/new thing is the pretty light show of how it goes down.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 04:27:09 No.25251769
>>25250570
The most common reason is that the main character is the definition of the wish-fulfillment narrative-derailing all-the-powers literally-every-girl-falls-head-over-heels-for-him-even-his-sister shitty protagonist.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 04:42:48 No.25252115
>>25250606
That's probably your best choice. OVA at least looks like a decent system.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 04:49:03 No.25252256
>>25250724
... honestly, I'm still not sure exactly what Kayaba's motivations were, aside from wanting to make A WHOLE NEW WOOORLD(s) and playing god.

Or the whole NerveGear potentially being able to fry brains business getting past gaming industry regulations, AND that the emergency disconnect seems to be "rip it off the player's head and fuck up their senses," which seems dangerous enough even without that damn super-microwave shit.

>>25251769
Yeah, I don't think ANYONE liked that bit. Having knowledge of Aincrad and its system from the beta is already a big enough advantage as it is, there wasn't much need to make him some godlike entity.

And those relatively interesting side characters who could have used more screen time were almost never seen (unless they're a girl falling head over heels for Kirito), and instead, we get Kirito & Asuna's Perfect Family or Super Incest Time.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 04:53:27 No.25252357
>>25249940
To add to the mmo leveling idea. Start off absolute ass at everything, and then, at level 3, you learn how to sit down, and by level 20 you can learn to study mass transit maps, and get from A to B in them.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 05:02:33 No.25252558
>>25250570


There already is an improved version of the setting. Its called .hack

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 05:19:44 No.25252970
>>25252558
Except .hack is class-based, has attack/healing/summoning magic (whereas in SAO there's no such thing as a completely undodgeable attack, and in-combat healing is harder to come by), and I'm not sure .hack has the floor progression thing that required teamwork and strategy sessions between front-line guilds, or the closed-world-24/7-death-game thing going on.

Their settings feel pretty different to me, and it doesn't put one above the other.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 05:58:20 No.25253727
I mean, to be fair, SAO's story itself? Sucked balls at certain parts, especially in the anime, with how Gary Stu Kirito was. That said, the game itself and the situation HAD THE POTENTIAL TO BE an interesting setting. No magic, low healing (crystals or potions only, and they didn't seem as common as return crystals), debilitating effects bordering on cruel judging by that paralysis poison and the limb loss system...roleplaying someone trapped in a video game, experiencing fantasy might be interesting. Moreso if Kayaba had taken a twist for the nuttier and made sure the limiters on pain weren't so gentle.

As Kirito demonstrated, a battle-focused character outleveling other similar characters was intensely debilitating, but there were also people who leveled as crafters and probably only took weapon skills and whatever else was necessary to gather mats. Essentially, it MIGHT make a pretty interesting tabletop setting. Especially come floor boss hour, because even counting the one Kirito nigh upon soloed, he still needed a small party to buy him time, making it a three man job that left a Gary Stu near dead. Running NPCs for that might be a bit weird, especially considering how some would hang back and try to slip in only for the final blow out of greed, or how some might take the chance to even scores, shoving people into boss attacks...

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 06:17:29 No.25254063
>>25253727
Basically, this.

There's a lot about Aincrad that wasn't ever really focused on, and a lot of wiggle room for paths other than "ungodly combat monster that every girl falls for." The crafters who supported the frontlines, the apparently-thriving information broker "class," the rise of the PK guilds (like the Laughing Coffins), the fact that most of the floors weren't even touched upon...

If you fill in over some of the logic holes and don't make everything focus on Kirito, you have an okay setting to work with.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 06:45:13 No.25254653
>>25253727
>>25254063
There's a lot of things out there that suffer from "Could've Been Handled and Explored Better" Syndrome, a condition synonymous with a fair number of settings.

Like Naruto, for example.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:03:36 No.25255034

[Missing image file: 1354342541176.jpg]
Honestly i think sao is pretty good for what it is: a 15 year old kids first novel lel. Yes its blatant wish fulfillment, so is fucking any table top game, or quest threads related to any anime, or any number of things. Sao had a story that was not that original at all, the thing it did best was tone and action, it basically took what .hack// tried to do, and eviscerated the terrible pacing problem that .hack had in spades. Sao is the kind of anime you could easily make a drinking game out of it it's often so predictable, but it's events and conclusions are at least satisfying.

In a way its a lot like chuunibyou, it certainly didn't take a lot of risks, but it also toned down on the wut you might expect from anime, like freezing's crazy ass excuse for why they need little boys to synchronize their weapon-ladies.

>>25252256
Seems like he wanted to make the net a real place, and wanted to also beta test a brain scanning system with some deadly side effects on a bunch of patsies.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:07:11 No.25255089
>>25255034
>Honestly i think sao is pretty good for what it is: a 15 year old kids first novel lel.
But for a mainstream anime, among other things, that's fucking terrible.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:12:48 No.25255193
>>25255089
>>for mainstream anime
Lol
>>>/a/
fucking retards like this are why no one gives people who hate sao the time of day, the vast majority act like their shit doesn't stink, that color wars and fucking my little sister can't want my dick this much are fucking great while this suck shit. go watch some more IS you faggot.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:15:55 No.25255250
>>25255193
I didn't say other anime was necessarily good. That has no bearing on whether or not SAO is a good series.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:33:59 No.25255599
>>25255034
>>25255089
>>25255193
>>25255250

Didn't SAO only happen like it did because the Author wrote something else that was awesome and the powers that be demanded something else from him NOW?

I remember reading something about how he really wanted to re-write it or something before it was published for serious.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:50:44 No.25255932
>>25255250
it doesnt matter, you said Sao is worse, and you'd have to be smoking crack to think its worse than things like freezing, h gata b kei and my sister can't be this a shit.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 07:57:22 No.25256048
>>25255932
Again, I didn't say it was necessarily worse than anything. The issue is that SAO is both a mainstream anime and a shit anime.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:04:29 No.25256181

[Missing image file: 37636975.jpg]
Wow, this thread is full of retards, some exceptions. Are we on /a/ or what? Last time I checked everyone could like the shows he likes.

Aside from most girls falling in love with the MC, the Anime is pretty good.

"Oh no, it's Mainstream, so it's shit!" is probably why 90% of the inbred neckbeards dislike this show.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:07:00 No.25256219
>>Honestly i think sao is pretty good for what it is: a 15 year old kids first novel lel.
>But for a mainstream anime, among other things, that's fucking terrible.
but for a mainstream anime its pretty much par the course would be what you would have had to have said in order to not be the backpeddling and lying shit you are right now.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:08:04 No.25256237
>>25256181

I just couldn't get into it because I watched .hack and it honestly felt better executed.

To be honest though, I don't watch much anything.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:17:12 No.25256372
>>25256237
opinions are opinions but i personally enjoyed it because it felt like it fixed everything that was wrong with .hack// a bunch of angst with no resolution. Sao adds tons of resolution,

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:19:28 No.25256402
>>25256372

... Uh, the .hack Anime (or at least the one I watched) had plenty of resolution.

People pulled heads out of asses, angst went away and the main character got the girl.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:19:29 No.25256403
>>25256237
I don't get why so many people listen to the idiots on /a/ for what they should like and dislike. Most of my favourite shows are on the "Hate" list of said board.

For example SAO - I simply love the show, and watched it like ten times. I own the Blu-Rays and every figure so far released. I understand that someone can dislike the show, but that hatred is simply retarded and shows that there are too many 12 year olds on 4chan. I don't go to someone, slap them and say "Your music/fashion/XY is retarded, go wear/listen to/watch something different? Isn't that a little arrogant?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:20:35 No.25256415
>>25256403
"Your music/fashion/XY is retarded, go wear/listen to/watch something different!"

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:21:21 No.25256427
>>25256402
Also, the main character being a girl was a pretty well executed twist.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:24:06 No.25256471
>>25256403

I try not to judge too hard, since I do the same damn thing.

Then again, I normally sperg over cooking and computers, two topics in which I am actually a certified expert. I'm not sure if that should give me more leeway or less.

>>25256427

Yeah. I kinda wanted to see the Silver Knights reaction to that. "By the way, that girl you were protecting was a parapalegic lesbian who hooked up with that dude you hated. Who was in fact a chick."

I think his head would've exploded.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:24:51 No.25256483
>>25256402
no, no they didn't, the mc worked up the courage to fight and then helga ntred the whole scene and it ended. there was no pay off that made sense, and no eventual agency for the MC to don the mantle of, the events of .hack// happen to tsukasa, he never overcomes them, the only time when he looks like hes about to, the series ended abruptly.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:25:56 No.25256501
>>25256471
of you watch .hack//Dust, he got over it.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:28:32 No.25256541
>>25256483

.... That was the entire point of the thing. he whole issue was NOT having the balls to take a stand, and that was the only thing holding them back. There wasn't really an obstacle to overcome once that was dealt with.

>>25256501
>>25256483

Alright, wait. Did it get split into more than one part or something? Because I remember clear goddamned resolution. Was it one of those 'second half got turned into a movie' deals and I just forgot about that or something?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:29:47 No.25256563
>>25255089
>>25255193
>>25255250
>>25255932
>>25256048
>>25256219
>>25256237
>>25256372
>>25256402
>>25256403
>>25256415
... guys, can't we just agree that it's

1) Not the best thing since sliced bread; it's got its own problems, characterization issues, and style, and there are a few things in it that, understandably, not everyone could enjoy. Live and let live.

2) Not complete shit, since the shit bar is set REALLY low for anime, and maybe some people are willing to look past the bits you don't like and find whatever gems there may be. Live and let live.

>>25255599
Not sure about that; all I know is that SAO was meant to be a one-shot, and was written with that in mind. (This explains quite a few things.)

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:30:05 No.25256567
>>25255599
The author also writes Accel World, which at the time was either so popular that they wanted something else from him, or tanked a bit and they wanted to see if he had something else to show. One of those two.

Anyway, he actually is working on rewriting Aincrad Saga from scratch, floor for floor.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:31:01 No.25256573
>>25256563
Also yes, I know, it's 4chan, but I'm still completely surprised that it's become such a polarizing series here, and I'm honestly confused why both sides are at each others' throats so much.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:35:46 No.25256620
>>25256541
>>hurrr
god damn theres just no explaining thus stuff to you, there was no resolution, he didn't do anything but work up the courage to fight, for most of the series he has no character development becuase he goes in a another fucking coma, .hack//sign was an angst train, a bunch of people feeling sorry about themselves for half the time, and trying to solve a mystery we never even got the answer to for the other half. there was NO resolution. and there was no movie, the thing i mentioned happened in a different .hack series which takes place after .hack//sign

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:36:38 No.25256629

[Missing image file: 1369137805800.jpg]
>>25256567
... I don't know how to feel about that.

On one hand, SAO's classic setting- which should be expanded on, since it's filled with side characters, events, and game mechanics we didn't see enough of- will get the treatment it deserves.

On the other hand, the author isn't the best writer, and he could hose it up so bad that it'll make two years' worth of glopping look quaint by comparison.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:36:42 No.25256635
>>25256573
The retarded fans are a blight, I feel like reading Youtube comments whenever I see one.
Some people just outright hate the fans more than the series, and that's why they go to such lengths to antagonize the fans, shitting up everything in the process. Silly, I know, but what do you want to do?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:36:58 No.25256637
>>25256471
Judging by the amount af series I watched and own you could consider me an expert in this field, too. But if you come, state your opinion, justify it like I mostly do, it's simply shitted on without regards of my feelings orthe given arguments. People seem to dislike it simply because someone told them to, once. I think the characters are awesome, the setting is awesome and the only negative thing I can think about is that it's too short. I would loved it even more (if that's even possible) if it would be an 50 episode Anime - I'm still hoping for the next seasons to be released!

I do accept other opinions, but not like given in this thread (lol, retarded shit, lol).

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:39:01 No.25256668
>>25256471

>cooking and computers

Mildly interesting combination.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:43:31 No.25256716
>>25252558

.hack is really, really boring. And I say this as a long-time .hack fan. SAO is what I want from a series about people trapped in an online game; .hack doesn't even have the balls to kill off anyone for good.

Not to mention, .hack doesn't explore the game mechanics, either. SIGN is possibly the most pretentious series I've ever seen, and ROOTS was totally forgettable. (Also, dat awful animation.)

SAO has flaws, but it's a fun series. .hack vanished up it's own asshole. And there is no excuse, whatsoever, for there to be five different Kites running around.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:45:32 No.25256739
>>25249388

It's pretty much Dark Souls Online, when you think about it. I honestly enjoyed the series, though my two main problems were:

1.) The Aincraid arc was the best arc, but it felt rather disjointed.
2.) Asuna is an incredibly boring girl. Leafa's way more interesting as a heroine.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:49:44 No.25256774
>>25256471

That actually rubbed me the wrong way, and part of the reason why I intensely dislike Sign as a series. There's simply no reason for all the drama and angst, because they're just playing a computer game.

They're literally white-knighting a girl for NO GODDAMN REASON. (Except maybe that she's a pure, perfect waifu in real life.)

Sword Art Online had the entire cast be actually trapped in the game, which meant that everything took a turn for the serious. Also, the 'die in real life if you die in the game' thing is wonderfully simple and immediate.

Hands-down, Sword Art Online had the better setting and plot. At least the main characters had a clear goal to strive towards - They weren't working off the vague prophecies alluded to by a half-made novelist and her obsessive stalker.

Also, I will never get over how disappointed I was with .hack/GU.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:53:31 No.25256811
>>25256716
ROOTS is the epitome of Nothing Fucking Happens: the Animation

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:53:49 No.25256814
Half Prince would have been more fun than .hack and SAO.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:55:56 No.25256834
>>25256814

As a native Taiwanese, I can safely say that Half Prince is both terrible and cringe-inducing. The writer simply has no idea how to make a world, and there's a parodic element to the entire series which is rather annoying.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 08:58:32 No.25256854
>>25256716
Yeah. SAO is definitely a better setting and premise, but the characters are what break it.

That said, I still like the series because I liked the Aincrad thing.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:01:06 No.25256871
>>25256716

>I'm a long time .hack fan.

>Now please excuse me while I shit all over it.

In all seriousness, your complaint reads like you just wanted a different flavor. Sign wasn't 100% quality, but it was really just a side story thing to flesh out background stuff for other parts of the series.

I personally cannot stand SAO. I'm going to COMPLETELY disregard the horrible characterization and suspect writing quality, and instead attack only the core premise.

Dude makes a video-game that completely overrides your ability to interact with the real-world, and then ANY PLACE EVER CONCEIVED IN HUMAN HISTORY managed to get even a single unit that didn't have a completely safe emergency eject-button installed is such preposterous horseshit that I'm having difficulty explaining how retarded it is to anyone whose first reaction to that wasn't abject blistering rage.

I mean, I get the whole 'fantasy matrix mystery' vibe they were shooting for with that, but HOLY SHIT.

To be completely fair, the guy who wrote it did so as a complete amateur for fun and never expected it to be published and taken seriously. I will give him that, as well as the fact that he probably didn't even try to think though the premise since it was in the way of the story he wanted to tell.

>>25256774

The whole thing about .hack and SAO is basically the Jumanji thing: What happens if it STOPS being 'just a game'.

.hack I liked more because the setup of there being a coverup for weird shit and deeper plots seemed really interesting.

SAO basically did an absurd leap in logic, went 'dare you enter my magical realm' because some guy apparently couldn't understand how videogames are supposed to work.

I will admit I didn't follow the series to the end, so I don't know if there was some twist I didn't get to that made it all better. Although everything I've read points to it getting worse eventually.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:05:22 No.25256906

[Missing image file: 12-prince-449175-1.jpg]
>>25256834
Your nationality can go fuck itself for all I care, it lends nothing to an opinion.

Though I agree the world is sparse, the bit of parody it has is good.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:09:49 No.25256947
>>25256871

Hey, I've followed .hack since I was an 14-year-old. I think I'm entitled to point out the major and terrible flaws with the series.

It's a franchise where you spend all of the time waiting for the series to get good. The four-game series is incredibly grindy, and I cannot believe I wasted hours of my life completing them.

When I first got SIGN, I was under the impression I would be watching...Well, something like SAO. Instead, I got .hack/SIGN, a series where I spent the entire time waiting for it to get good.

While we're at it: I simply cannot take the floating dumbbell/testicle Guardian creature seriously. Even the cause of the fight was dumb: They're fighting a monster with infinite HP. As soon as it's disrupted, THREE MORE turn up, and they're saved by deus ex machina.

Also, the four Liminality OVAs are dire. I'm watching a series about an online game, I want to know MORE about the virtual reality game. I don't want to see a group of boring assholes perform half-assed corporate espionage. Who are these people? Why should I care?

I honestly felt, however, that the lack of an 'eject button' wasn't a big issue. Fighter jets, cars, computers...All kinds of products have had fatal flaws which were not immediately apparent. If those could pass muster, so could this.

Similarly, while Kirito was overpowered, he was WAY, WAY more fun to watch than Tsukasa or Haseo. Tsukasa spends nearly the entire series angsting - He's a non-character. Most of the show is prodding him in the ass to get him moving.

Kirito, however, is always acting. He's a 'doing' character, who drives the story along. That's compelling in it's own right, and I enjoy a main character who can *do* things.

I've always been terminally annoyed with the beta-faggot, worthless main characters we get in anime. It honestly spoils my enjoyment of things, you know? It's simply not fun to watch someone like that.

And boy was SIGN not-fun.

Don't even get me started on ROOTS.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:12:23 No.25256972
>>25256906

Oh, it does. Mandarin is my first language, which means I read the books long before the translations began to come out.

Trust me when I say this: It's not a well-written series. The attempts at humour fall rather flat, and the story itself simply isn't compelling. It's actually inferior to both .hack and SAO.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:17:08 No.25257020

[Missing image file: Cover.jpg]
for the people who haven't bothered to read this and are still shitting all over it here is the entirety of the novels that have been translated

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/?title=Sword_Art_Online

also the first 2 story arcs weren't even the best part

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:18:19 No.25257030
>>25257020

I like the GGO arc a lot, personally. And the fight with Silver Crow of Accel World.

The Underworld arc is...Well, it's the 'epic' one, but it's not quite as compelling to me.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:19:11 No.25257035

[Missing image file: 1358904549451.png]
>>25256972
The fact that you know at least mandarin and english is interesting.

But opinions are opinions, sir, and ours differ. Good day.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:19:58 No.25257042
has anyone considerd actually helping come up with a playable system rather than argue over the quality of the series

for instance did anyone consider coming up with a dice system for the existing combos in the game?

http://swordartonline.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_Skills

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:20:00 No.25257043
>>25256947
Kirito is and was an even more faggoty Haseo.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:24:17 No.25257087
>>25257043

I'd say less, though. Haseo is...Well, he's kind of a shithead. Emo as hell, constantly yelling at people, treats Atoli REALLY badly - He's not very likeable, and he feels like edgiest of all edgy protagonists ever.

(His character design doesn't help. It's rather over-the-top.)

Kirito, however, is a genuinely likeable character. I can actually *understand* why the girls have the hots for him - Especially Lizbeth and Silica. The more restrained character appearance helps a LOT.

I mean, Kirito doesn't go out of his way to act like the biggest prick ever. Remember the first 'date' with Atoli, where Haseo promptly starts slashing up the environment to spite her?

Good god.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:28:28 No.25257121
>>25256947

>All kinds of products have had fatal flaws which were not immediately apparent.

The problem is the scope and nature of said flaw.

That's like designing a space-ship with no way of containing oxygen or something. It is impossible that nobody involved wouldn't say something along the lines of 'you know, there's no AIR in space. That's kinda an important problem to solve if we want the astronauts to live.'

>waiting for the series to get good.

Alright, I'll give you grinding problems. It was supposed to look and feel like you were exploring an MMO, and in Japan MMO = GRIND FOREVER.

Sign was never intended to be anything other than what it was: Morgana locked a player in the game and wanted to make them DESPAIR as hard as possible for her own ends. Thus, most of the series focuses on the emotional struggle of said character, and the series basically ends when they stop having their mental/emotional issues. I get that you wouldn't be into that since you were expecting something different, but at the same time it's like bitching at Die Hard for being an action movie and not a romantic comedy.

That said, the overall concept and execution of the story in .hack I feel is better than SAO.

That isn't to say one overall CONCEPT is worse than the other, since SAO seems interesting at least on the surface.

It unfair to compare them solely on execution: .hack was made by a team of professionals who knew what the hell they were doing and SAO was written by a kid who had no idea anyone else was going to read it.

I also understand your complaints about the protags not being proactive enough (even though hat was the entire point of one of them) but SAO has the opposite problem of the the Protag being 'too awesome' and solving everything and everybody loves him and... etc.

Like Ichigo from Bleach really.

So I can't really give points to a character who lives at the opposite extreme even though you clearly prefer them.

That said, Kite was the only Protag I liked.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:29:10 No.25257130
>>25256947
The plot in SAO is a big shitheap, even by the standards of anime, and Kirito is a junior high kid's blatant self-insert character. There are many things wrong with it, but I'd have to say Kirito is what offended me the absolute most.

Also
>>25257087
Haseo is actually a character on some level. His character is that he's kind of an asshole, but he acts like you would expect an asshole to act like. Whether or not it is admirable is irrelevant. Kirito is just wish fulfillment given form. He's bland and dull, and he acts like every other vaguely heroic main character.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:35:11 No.25257174
>>25257121
In case anyone's writing a rebuttal to this, I needed to be asleep an hour ago, so I probably won't see it.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:36:04 No.25257178
>>25257121

See, that's the main problem. This was the days when the internet wasn't quite as ubiquitous as it is, now.

The blurb for the series was that Tsukasa, the protagonist, was trapped in the virtual world and desperately trying to escape. They bandied about terms like 'death game' and 'virtual prison'.

In fact, the series was advertised as...Well, SAO. Which meant that actually watching it, and not getting that, was a huge letdown. If they'd been more honest in marketing, I wouldn't have been anywhere near as disappointed, to tell the truth: I'd simply have ignored the series entirely.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:36:41 No.25257184
>>25257087
You are neglecting the fact that Atoli's simpering nature is intentionally annoying. If you noticed, the vast majority of Haseo's dickery is aimed at Atoli for this reason (in addition to reminding him about how bad he's pining for Shino).

Of course, if you don't like your protagonists to be dicks, I can't help you there.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:38:32 No.25257199

[Missing image file: cry_toradora.jpg]
MFW all the rage in this thread
MFW i just liked the concept, and the soundtrack.
please stop fighting anon...... <sniffle>

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:38:35 No.25257200
>>25257130

>Haseo is actually a character on some level. His character is that he's kind of an asshole, but he acts like you would expect an asshole to act like.

That's the major disconnect. You're playing as the main character, and all your actions are the actions of a pretty cool guy. And yet Haseo acts like an asshole in most of his speaking parts.

It's bewildering. Kite had very little personality of his own, but since he's supposed to be the player, their goals are aligned.

I winced a little every time Haseo was dickish for no apparent reason. Which gets weird when he acts in an entirely different way with characters like Gaspard and Syllabus. (i.e. characters that aren't important to the plot.)

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:39:41 No.25257212
>>25257184

Oh yes, I agree with you entirely. Atoli is incredibly goddamn annoying, and it's kind of mercy that she doesn't HAVE to be the love interest.

I kicked her to the curb at every opportunity because BITCH, PLEASE.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:42:28 No.25257228
>>25257200
This is easy to explain: He actually likes Gaspard and Syllabus pretty much right away, and most of the unimportant people to the plot don't stick around and send him needy emails. He's also not really malevolent, just a rude ass.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:43:25 No.25257234
I wanted to see more about beastmasters in the anime.

Hell, it made no sense at all that there weren't tons of people doing beastmaster style characters, after all, what better way to avoid dying then having a pet tank most of the damage?

But there was the one girl, who sucked. And her pet sucked.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:44:19 No.25257238

[Missing image file: Alkaid_(Link).jpg]
Alkaid was my waifu.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:46:06 No.25257250
Also, everyone was way too reliant on weapons and skills.

Why the fuck didn't we see a grappler? I mean, a grappler would have fucked everyone up in that game, because it comes down to actual skill, and not relying on the game to make it up for you.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:46:15 No.25257251
>>25257234

The main problem was that there's no guide on how to recruit a pet. Not to mention that any pet worth a damn could probably rip your guts out before you tamed it.

Silica stumbled into it by sheer dumb luck. Her pet wasn't exactly a top-tier one, but it could heal her. Also, it was cuddly as hell.

I must admit, I do rather like SAO's classless system. I kind of wish MMOs would have something like that: Just a big open world to explore, minus the boring compulsory tutorials and handholding.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:47:51 No.25257257
>>25257199
The soundtrack was actually kind of dull too, I think.

Too wishy-washy all around, I think, never really gives the kind of push a soundtrack should give.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:48:14 No.25257261
>>25256947
I'm late to the game here but you are a fucking retard. I will dissect exactly why this is true.

>It's a franchise where you spend all of the time waiting for the series to get good. The four-game series is incredibly grindy, and I cannot believe I wasted hours of my life completing them.

The series is Grindy, but its a jRPG. That is par for the course. The absolute worst part of the series is viral cores and that was the only part that was really grindy, even by jRPG standards.

>When I first got SIGN, I was under the impression I would be watching...Well, something like SAO. Instead, I got .hack/SIGN, a series where I spent the entire time waiting for it to get good.

SIGN is very good at what its doing. It is not doing what SAO is doing. You're supposed to watch Sign because it fleshes out aspects of the main series. Sign doesn't have a standalone plot, its not supposed to, its a prequel. It has one of the best OSTs of any anime and its character development is top notch.

>Also, the four Liminality OVAs are dire
Its an OVA. There are 4. They were packaged with the prequel series. Do you have downs? You're supposed to care because it shows the events leading up to the climax of the games. The problem is that you didn't like the games and just kept watching prequels and side stories and you're disappointed that they're support material.

>Similarly, while Kirito was overpowered, he was WAY, WAY more fun to watch than Tsukasa or Haseo.
Your taste is absolute shit. The only episode of SAO worth watching was episode 1, and I watched the entire fucking thing. Kirito appallingly bad in every way. He was bland, dark, and a waste of space. You might as well have swapped him with a cute girl for all the relevant personality he had, at least I could jack off to that.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:48:59 No.25257271
>>25257250

Grappler would be useless against enemies. There was a martial arts skill, however.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:49:11 No.25257273
>>25257251
But see, if beastmasters were so rare, how the fuck did they instantly know where to get an item to restore a pet to life?

I mean, there's a lot of plot holes and mistakes with game mechanics in the series, but that one just struck me as really, really odd.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:50:33 No.25257281
>>25257273

Kirito was a beta-tester. He'd played the game before. Not to mention: The quest was already there, waiting to be triggered, and simply passed over because no beastmaster came along.

It was an open secret. Only Silica didn't know about it, because she's...What, twelve years old and scared out of her mind?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:51:40 No.25257296
>>25257271
Enemies, maybe, but other players it would have been exceptional. And yet not one of the griefers does it.

You could just use a normal weapon style for enemies.

And you can't tell me that of the 10000 people playing this game, none of them did any sort of grappling martial art.

But yet another one of the weird things the series just kind of ignores.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:53:49 No.25257309
>>25257273
the tamers werent horribly rare silica is just the only one that the series highlighted

also the item was well known on the upper floors silica was just a lowbie who wasn't in on cuurent information cause she wasnt on the upper floors

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:53:51 No.25257310
>>25257281
Kirito as a beta tester got to like, level 9 or something?

The quest was in the 30s. He wouldn't have known about except through his normal play time.

And if the quest established beastmasters existed, then why weren't there more of them? Either no one knows about beastmasters, and thus shouldn't know about the quest, or people do know about them, and no one bothers for some stupid reasons.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:55:38 No.25257320
>>25257310
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Sword_Art_Online:Volume_2_Chapter_1

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:55:45 No.25257321
>>25257296

Well, there was a group called Laughing Coffin, which went around murdering people. Their leader seemed to prefer poisoned daggers, however.

And in all fairness, a grappling combat system is probably complicated as hell. There might have, in fact, been one; There are several Unique Skills which hadn't been identified by the end of the series.

The idea that someone out there was grinding his Grapple Skill - With the aim of saving everyone through the power of wrestling - is kind of hilarious. Made more so by how abruptly the game ended.

I bet he shouted: "NOOOOOO, YOU BASTARDS! NOOOOOOOOO!!!" when the server went down.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:55:52 No.25257323
>>25257309
But that's my point, tamers should be really fucking common, because pet classes in most every single MMO are one of the most survivable classes.

In a game where dying is something no one wants to do, having a pet to tank for you would be an exceptionally useful thing. And yet you never see any tamers at all.

And since it's a classless system, and anyone could have a pet with no downsides, you'd think every single one of the late game players would be rocking something.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:57:55 No.25257334
>>25257321
I'm not even talking about a system.

I'm just talking about actual grappling.

The system perfectly mimics human movement. You don't need skills(besides unarmed to do damage and the strength boosters to help out), you just need to grab a motherfucker and start beating his ass. And with everyone so reliant on skills to fight, it would absolutely brutalize people.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:57:58 No.25257336
>>25257323

It's incredibly hard to get a pet. It's not like a WoW epic mount, where it's easily purchasable. SAO is possibly one of the most punishing fictional MMOs out there, all things considered: I doubt that most people are willing to spend a week getting raped by wolves while trying to find the one that's willing to be a pet.

There were a handful of beast tamers, but they were explicitly rather rare.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:58:10 No.25257339
>>25257323
>And yet you never see any tamers at all.

If I remember correctly the way to become a tamer was really stupid. You had to encounter the 1/100,000 enemy monster that spawns as an ally and you can't have killed a single enemy of that type throughout your entire playthrough thus far for it not to recognize you as an enemy.

>>25257321
>poisons that paralyze other players for 5-10 minutes at a time

Why would you use anything else

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:58:22 No.25257342
>>25257323
the combet moves to fast for pets to be viable at higher levels also only shitty cute animals are tameable see>>25257320

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 09:59:28 No.25257349
>>25257339

> Why would you use anything else

You have to grind to use it. And it's useless against monsters, which makes it pointless unless you're a player killer.

Most people just had their hands full with staying alive. And a large majority of the trapped players spent the entire time hiding in the 'safe zone' of the city, and waiting for the game to end.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:00:18 No.25257354
>>25257339
>Why would you use anything else
Only pussies use status effects to win fights for them?

Seriously, it's a truth as old as status effects in games. You use those to win, and you're branded a faggot in every aspect of life.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:00:53 No.25257357
>>25257320
Ok, so the whole thing is basically bullshit useless and hard as fuck to accomplish anyways.

Man, SAO just seems like a shitty MMO sometimes.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:02:11 No.25257364
>>25257354
Someone has never played an actually hard RPG.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:02:41 No.25257367
>>25257357

It's a bizarrely hardcore game. It's incredibly easy to die, and you need to spend countless hours to get anything done.

In other words, it's a perfect game to be trapped in.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:03:50 No.25257377
>>25257364
Someone has, not my fault you can't play like a man.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:04:02 No.25257380
>>25257339
>>25257336
Ok, yea, that answers that question.

Why would someone even design it like that?

There's still a few holes in it(after all, how can a monster that can be regarded as a threat to a player somehow become useless otherwise), but still, much more sense.

Maybe they just hated pet classes, since they're usually so powerful.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:05:52 No.25257394

[Missing image file: deal w it joff.gif]
>>25257377
>>25257354
Cancer mage is best class in all games

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:06:08 No.25257396
But on that note, I like how Kirito brings up his Battle Healing skill exactly once, and then all these other times when that skill would be amazingly useful it never seems to come into play.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:07:00 No.25257402

[Missing image file: 1362405432799.jpg]
>>25257394
Good for having no balls and no gf, not much else.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:07:23 No.25257406
>>25257377
Oh, I can play like a man.

And being a man means making sure you can't see, poison eats away at your life, you can barely move, and basically everything about you is weakened.

There's nothing more manly than actually winning a fight.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:07:45 No.25257412
>>25257396
Yeah, it only works when he's perfectly motionless on a bridge and seducing lolis. That's why he kept the girl there.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:09:11 No.25257420
>>25257406
>in order for me to be capable of fighting you, you can't be allowed to do anything because i am a delicate flower who likes cocks in my ass

Sounds like being a bitch to me.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:09:14 No.25257421
>>25257396

It's a regenerating skill. It's a DoT effect that allows for in-combat healing.

But the thing about SAO is that even-levelled encounters are incredibly dangerous. His Battle Healing is pretty much negated by the damage that monsters at his level do. (Who would one-hit the scrubs that attacked him.)

In fact, the Level 75 boss killed you in a single direct hit. At a certain point, the game gets ridiculously punishing.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:10:54 No.25257429
>>25257412
I don't even know why the skill is even there, minus the whole showing off element there.

I mean, a skill like that, especially if it could be boosted somehow, would drastically change the way combat in the show worked.

But yea, watching him fight that boss and solo it and then it's all dramatic with his health almost gone and I'm just sitting there going "You should be regenerating motherfucker, you have the skill."

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:12:16 No.25257440
>>25257421
I'm well aware of that.

But there's all these times when he sits there and his health never comes back up. He just sits at almost dead and never recovers, even though he should be.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:12:38 No.25257441
>>25257429
I think that in game terms he would have been regenerating, but between the attack and damage rate of the boss and any regeration-crippling effects his weapon class has (because that would be an interesting mechanic, certain weapons being able to bleed your regen out and all) he'd not be making any progress.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:12:59 No.25257442
>>25257420
That's because you don't know what the fuck is going on.

Besides, you know who's the bitch? The one who gets hit with all the status effects.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:13:54 No.25257453
>I'm going to run a game based on SAO
>Obviously, I don't intend to tell my players that caveat of the game until it's already started.

So, you're going to hold your players at gunpoint until they finish the tomb of horrors, and will kill them if their character dies?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:13:55 No.25257454
>>25257440

Maybe there's a cooldown.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:14:07 No.25257455
>>25257412
>seducing lolis

Finally, a useful skill.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:14:41 No.25257457
>>25257441
I mean when the battle is over. There's lots of times when he simply doesn't recover HP when he should.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:15:19 No.25257462
>>25257454
It's described as a passive skill.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:15:40 No.25257464
>>25257442
>Not raising the stat that gives you all those delicious stat resistances and HPs
Seriously, you have no idea how much I loved fucking with every thief/assassin style class in online games. Too bad making effectfags take a shit in their own britches is the closest thing to correcting their bad upbringing that's available though, actually fixing their deficiencies would be nice.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:16:12 No.25257468
>>25257457
Yeah, it's kind of stupid once the fight is over.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:19:01 No.25257485
>>25257464
Hey, I didn't play debuffers main, I usually played pet classes.

But the thing about debuffers is that PVP wise they're either incredibly powerful because their spells aren't nerfed, or they're horrible because they are nerfed.

Must feel like a big man, beating up a nerfed class.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:20:16 No.25257494
>>25257468
Of course, there's all sorts of shit that doesn't jive in general.

Kirito has like stupid amounts of plot armor though.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:21:43 No.25257507
>>25257485
The debuffer is in its rightful place when nobody wants to be one.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:23:51 No.25257518
Of course, none of this covers that the second game was even worse.

I mean, holy shit. So you can run around in starter gear and vendor bought weapons and kill everyone?

Who the fuck designed this game? And don't give me the bullshit about his skills being that much higher, they all maxed at 1000, and even one of the upper mooks talked about his skill being like 850-900.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:23:52 No.25257519
>>25257494
Yeah. One of the things that got me was the whole "here have a unique skill" thing.

If that was something that happened to more players and gave them different kinds of otherwise inaccessable fighting styles and skills and shit just with the criteria that unlock them being unknown, it would be awesome.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:26:18 No.25257527
>>25257519
That's where the plot seemed to be going in the beginning, but it never went anywhere.

I mean, I'd feel better about this whole thing if it was an anime first, and the skills and shit were just an excuse for the anime to do various cool things, but the guy wrote these first as stories, and likely thought this shit out.

Maybe shit's being left out of the transition, but still, some of this just doesn't jive at all.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:27:33 No.25257537
>>25257518

It's like Dark Souls. You can kill everyone with starter gear if you're good enough. The weapons and armor you choose depend more on your playstyle than anything else.

It's actually surprisingly egalitarian.

Also, the elf chicks were hot, but Elf-Kirito was silly.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:27:59 No.25257540
>>25257527
I think what needs to be done is to take the ideas that were good (casterless game, various skill options defining characters, different fighting styles being able to be trained individually, etc) and make something good out of it.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:29:14 No.25257549
>>25257537

>The weapons and armor you choose depend more on your playstyle than anything else.

Also grindan the materials and souls to upgrade them.

Also keep in mind that bosses scale with your level.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:29:20 No.25257550
>>25257527

There are ten players with one-of-a-kind Unique Skills, including Darkness Blade, Throwing Weapons, Infinite Spear, and Iaijitsu.

We only see Holy Sword and Dual Blades, however.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:30:02 No.25257554
>>25257537
Or use dark bead and wotg, if skill isn't your thing.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:30:53 No.25257558
>>25257554

I always relied on the Black Knight Sword/Tower Shield combination, to be honest.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:31:11 No.25257562
>>25257550
My point was more each of the hidden skills should be attainable by anyone, but only one per player, and the things that cause you to gain those skills should be a nebulous and unknown set of prerequisites.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:32:12 No.25257568
>>25257537
But they made a big deal out of the guy's special weapon(and then, in the same fight, totally forgot what that special weapon actually does), and talked a lot about having to buy raid level gear for doing certain special raids.

And even in Dark Souls, starter, unupgraded weapons aren't going to let you just fucking slaughter other players, even if they're not on your level. You're going to have to outfight them and be all around better at the game.

See, this would have made a much better set of fights too. Having him be at a distinct disadvantage for his gear, but overcoming it by being that fucking good? Great showing of his skill as a player.

Having him just totally slaughter basically everyone he fights like gear doesn't mean shit? Why does anyone bother with the special shit then?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:32:53 No.25257572
>>25257558
Balder Swag Sword was here, respek fitebro.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:33:23 No.25257576
>>25257550
Wait, throwing weapons?

Didn't Kirito use throwing knives?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:34:39 No.25257587
>>25257572
I heard they actually nerfed that sword because it was to good.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:36:13 No.25257597
>>25257587
It's still good. Not OP or anything, but it's got a decent attack rate and range for a one handed weapon.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:36:24 No.25257598
>>25257568
It looks kuuru. Same reason I wear any armor in Dark Souls too, where mobility is the king and armor only slows you down.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:38:17 No.25257610
>>25257568

It's actually quite straightforward.

Kirito is max-levelled at the time of Fairy Dance. Not to mention, he's spent two years playing the SAME game 24/7, except in hardcore permadeath mode. Compared to Aincraid, ALO is hand-holding carebear mode.

Everyone - EVERYONE - in ALO is a filthy casual noob compared to Kirito. It's like pubbies going up against the FPS world champion.

It doesn't matter if you have the game's best weapon. The other guy will run circles around you.

It's like having two players of identical Soul Level, except the other guy has played Dark Souls 24/7. He'll roll, parry and repeatedly backstab the other player to death, as his opponent swings and keeps missing.

Trust me, I've been on the receiving end.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:38:34 No.25257611

[Missing image file: 1346715793121.png]
>>25257558
>>25257554
>>25257549
>>25257537
>>25257587
>>25257572
Ok, watching an anime about Dark Souls style PVP would be fucking hilarious.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:39:14 No.25257619
>>25257576

Yeah, he has a Throwing skill. The Unique Skill version is called Shurikenjutsu, and is implied to be superior in every way.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:40:00 No.25257624
>>25257611
Fuck yes.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:41:06 No.25257633
>>25257610

Also, no-one in Alfheim Online has been playing the game for more than...What, five months? The game only went up when the SAO servers went down, because the whole point of it was to trap 300 players for virtual experimentation.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:42:12 No.25257640
>>25257610
But that's my point.

I would have been fine with buying that kind of story, and showing Kirito run circles around everyone because he's just that fucking good.

But it also made him look like he had all the best gear.

There's never the kind of situation you're talking about, where Kirito has to outfight the other guy. He just steamrolls basically everyone without a problem.

And as I said before, there's indications that quite a few other people in the game are max, if not close to max as well. So the big difference should have been in equipment and in player skill.

There should have been some good action by having Kirio make up for his lack of the former with plenty of the latter. But it just acts like he's got all of it.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:44:01 No.25257648
>>25257633
Wait, hold on, wait a second.....

SAO has two different killer MMOs?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:44:19 No.25257651
>>25257633
Sure, but one of the guys has a sword that you can't block.(Except, when, for some reason, you can block it.)

Clearly gear means something if you've got a weapon that can do something like that.

And hell, the game is supposed to be heavily based on SAO, which was amazingly gear dependent, so unless they overhauled the entire system, then that shouldn't have changed.

And why would they?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:44:25 No.25257654
>>25257640
Unfortunately, the writer's biggest flaw is that he gave Kirito fucking everything. As you said, we'd be fine if he was just so fucking good at games that he wrecked more powerful statblocks because he was -good-. But not only is he good as shit, he seems to inexplicably also have the best gear and stats.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:45:08 No.25257658
>>25257648
The second one isn't actually a killer MMO. It's just a normal MMO with a Dark Secret.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:46:37 No.25257665
>>25257640

Actually, only General Eugene - That's the guy with the uber-sword - is close to max. All the other characters are nowhere near there.

It's mostly because ALO is basically a cheap copy of Aincraid. Kirito's character carries over all his optimum stats, and it's made pretty clear that he's overpowered.

Like, the illusion spell only turns you into a monster of your level. But Kirito transforms into the Gleameyes, because his level and stats are simply obscene.

He's basically a hacked character.

>>25257651

They did address that, however. The system was overhauled, but they did shoddy, rushed, sloppy coding.

For instance, they included magic and ability to fly, and it's expressly stated they toned down the relevance of gear. ALO's 'game' aspect was intended to be a front, which is why the main quest is unwinnable, and it's way more casual than SAO.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:47:36 No.25257672
>>25257654
It even establishes that his gear is shit, and yet he can still one shot guys who are established to be roughly close to max level.

It's boggling, because there was also some really clever elements to the story. I liked the subtle foreshadowing that the second arc had with him randomly starting in the forest, rather than in his home city.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:49:11 No.25257677
>>25257672
I would've been down with that if it was some Bushido Blade shit where it doesn't matter what the stats say, getting stabbed in the chest is getting stabbed in the chest.

That would've been interesting.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:49:26 No.25257679
>>25257654
because all he did for 90%+ of the time he was there was powergame, do you really expect that he would be carrying average gear?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:50:17 No.25257683
>>25257672

To be fair, he killed Eugene with a multi-attack combo. One that involved manually dual-wielding, so he was basically beating the guy over the head with two separate swords at once. (Since ALO doesn't have a dual-wielding skill.)

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:50:47 No.25257686
>>25257679
I mean his starting level store-bought gear is inexplicably best.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:51:32 No.25257691
>>25257654

Yeah, he did have the best stats. His PC data was used for his ALO character.

I assume this was for the purpose of brevity. There was no time for him to grind his way back up to an appropriate level, so he had his old character data for one last hurray.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:51:37 No.25257693
>>25257683
The writer REALLY likes dual wielding.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:52:07 No.25257696
>>25257665
>Actually, only General Eugene - That's the guy with the uber-sword - is close to max. All the other characters are nowhere near there.

See, but that mook he runs into in the beginning claims his magic skill is almost 900, when the max for skills is 1000.

And he's not even established as being that special of a character. Certainly in charge, but not one of their ubers, so you can assume that there's plenty of characters with skill levels equal to, or better than, his.

So clearly people are getting close to max.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:53:45 No.25257705
>>25257696

They're not quite there yet, though. And in all honesty, Kirito would've lost that fight with the mooks if not for Leafa spamming heals and the illusion trick.

Also, Leafa is fucking hot.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:53:52 No.25257707
>>25257691
No, I'm not saying that him having maxed stats was a problem. It made sense within the context.

I'm just saying that he's walking around with vendor trash, and yet it acts like his shit is fucking end game raid gear.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:55:37 No.25257720
>>25257705
I'm talking about the first fight, where he just logs in. He just randomly mercs two high level players without them even knowing what the fuck.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:56:51 No.25257726
>>25257683
He also beat him by parrying his sword you're not supposed to be able to parry.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:57:17 No.25257732
>>25257691
You know, that makes me wonder. What would an MMO be like if max level was, say, 20, it only took an hour or so to get to that level, and the combat engine was geared more towards being good at a fighting style and using armor and skill setups that complemented it over have +100 Flaming Keen Vorpal gear and going through leveled armor set after leveled armor set by class, with only minor +X upgrades available and a couple modifications. Once you die, you lose all your levels and gear and start over, and then you can either make new gear, find your body and get your gear back, or kill someone with better stuff than you and take their stuff.

I would try that game out.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:57:55 No.25257738
>>25257707

Eh, I'll give you that. Still, it *was* a solid (And I assume) level-appropriate sword. In the novels, the only magical weapons we see are the artifact swords - Gram and Calibre.

Similarly, Leafa's sword supposedly isn't anything special. Maybe 'generic' weapons are all of the same quality, with higher tiers for raid gear and artifact weapons?

>>25257726

With a double-parry, actually. Gram went through the first sword, but he blocked the second slash before opening up a can of whop-ass.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:59:00 No.25257743
>>25257732

I think, but I cannot be sure, that the old MMO Legend of the Red Dragon had a hard reset function. As soon as a player defeated the Red Dragon, the entire game reset itself.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 10:59:16 No.25257746
>>25257732
It's a bad MMO design, so no one will make it.

It lacks the elements to make an MMO addictive.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:02:22 No.25257771
>>25257738
>With a double-parry, actually. Gram went through the first sword, but he blocked the second slash before opening up a can of whop-ass.

Which bugged me. Why would someone program a weapon that's designed to be unable to parry so that if you make two parry attempts, the second one works?

I mean, sloppy design would dictate that the weapon should right through both swords.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:02:52 No.25257773
>>25257746
Make the combat engine focused on player skill and group tactics, emphasize PVP in the larger part of the game and maybe add a Planetside style system of factions fighting for control of the central neutral zone of the map.

I am aware it might not be the best from a publisher's standpoint, but it isn't happening anyway. I'm thinking from a player's standpoint here.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:03:43 No.25257778
>>25257738
>Gram went through the first sword, but he blocked the second slash before opening up a can of whop-ass.

If the game wasn't meant to handle duel wielding this could be some sort of exploit.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:08:50 No.25257796
>>25257568
>>25257640
>>25257651

ALO was also a completely different sort of game where there were less emphasis on core stats that dictated how strong you are. None of the stats usual STR/DEX/AGI/CON etc. to pit against others to determine how broken you are by grinding 20 levels higher.

It was instead more dependent on your own reflexes and motor skills in a virtual world. There's a beginning racial strength stat the determines what sort of stuff you can equip at the beginning, and then everything else is leveling your skills. Kirito came in with maxed skills because the skill system was reused from SAO. None of the old core stats exist in ALO, they are gone, along with his HP which is now the starting amount for his race.

Your attack power in ALO is dictated by your weapon are for and your swing speed. Kirito's swing speed is just that much faster, and he chose the heaviest sword he could get. While you can be broken in SAO because of overwhelming high level, Kirito is supposed to be broken in ALO because he's just that much better at swordfights in it.

None of the gear matters as much in the face of superior skill unless it had a special ability like Gram, and once it was figured out to be stoppable it only came to who was suprised that it was stoppable.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:10:54 No.25257806
>>25257771

Maybe it's a triggered ability. (So you can still parry attacks with Gram, instead of having all incoming weapons phase through.)

There might be a brief cooldown, or it has to be manually activated. So your opponent is never sure whether your next slash if going through his sword or not, which means he's fucked both ways:

a) If he parries your sword, you're going to carve into him.
b) If he doesn't, and tries to dodge, or parries improperly - You can still punish him for it.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:12:38 No.25257815
>>25257720

Why wouldn't he in a game that plays nearly like something he already mastered. That scene where he tossed someone around like nothing was an anime fucked-up choice though. In the novels all he did was use his parry skill on one dude to push him towards the other because they tried to catch him in a pincer attack.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:15:32 No.25257840
>>25257796
So what the fuck is the point of armor?

And again, we're shown that while the mooks might not be maxed, they have stats that are up there. The starting sword sure as shit wasn't that amazing, how was he one shotting motherfuckers with it?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:16:56 No.25257850
For an anime /tg/ claims to hate we seem to know a lot about it.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:18:58 No.25257871
>>25257850
Know your enemy etc.

Well, I daresay that at least some of the /tg/ userbase overlaps with /a/'s, it'd be kind of unusual if you didn't have at least some people knowing what they're talking about.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:27:39 No.25257942
>>25257840
Maybe he got bonuses from being such a high lvl and having crazy swordskill, there had to be some bonus to getting skills high if it was them choosing how/where to swing their weapons

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:31:43 No.25257972
>>25257840

"In this world, only one thing controls how fast you can move: the speed at which your brain receives signals from the «Full Dive» system and reacts to them. Amusphere sends signals to the brain's cognitive faculties, then the brain processes these signals and produces signals which control the motor functions of the body. These signals are then intercepted by the Amusphere system. The faster a player's brain is able to do this, the faster the player can move in the game. Innate reflexes are one of the things that determine how fast this happens but the speed is also improved with experience, so the longer one plays the faster they can move."

"ALO's attack formula is not complicated. It depends on four things: Power of the weapon itself, where on the opponent's body the attack hits, attack speed, and the armor worn by the opponent. On this occasion, the attack power of his weapon was almost the lowest, while the Salamander's armor was really quite high level. The strength of his attacks came from the boy's accuracy and overwhelming speed."

There it is, right from the novel translation. It's a combination of things. Even with all the equipment/skill grind and factional war, ALO was a game where situations like a high level character being invincible by standing still against people 20 levels lower than him wasn't always possible. (which hilariously was something Kirito did in SAO)

I imagine it was a game made so they could keep both the hardcore grinders and casual people with less time to spare playing. The selling point of a VRMMO was the feel of a virtual reality, so if everything came down to the invincibility of stats... what's the action and feel of what you're doing for ?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 11:39:48 No.25258045
>>25257850
It's impolite to totally trash something without knowing about it.

Also not nearly as fun.

Besides, I have nothing better to do than watch a bunch of anime.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 12:52:06 No.25258707
>>25255932
you say that SAO is not worse than H gata b kei, and i'm the one on crack ??

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 14:37:34 No.25259563
Its there some scifi version of Sword and sorcery genre?
If yes any setting that fit on it

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 14:44:46 No.25259623
>>25259563
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_and_planet

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 14:49:46 No.25259670
>>25259623
From what i am reading about is sword and planet usually have swords and stuff like that, more like those paintings that have conan like warrios on other planets.

I was talking more about guys on a (problably apocaliptic) setting with few scifi techs,

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 16:23:29 No.25260551
I didn't really like how themed it was.
"Swords only"
"Magic, maybe swords only"

Screw that.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 19:10:51 No.25262603
>>25256871
Ok, I didn't read half the thread but I have to chime in here:
The basic premise of SAO isn't any worse than, say, the Terminator movies.
How does it break the setting? It's only established as a plot device once. I consider the retarded Terminator backstory far more unbelievable and I actually liked that movie.
Or, fuck, look at the fucking Matrix. It doesn't even try to make sense, yet it's loved everywhere.

Do you also sperg out because Tony Stark is basically immune to G forces?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 19:44:29 No.25263044
>>25257732
That's an action RPG/FPS/RTS/etc.
Basically, any good game ever.
It's the main reason why I dislike JRPGs and MMOs - I want the game to test my skill and have the character gain more options when I level up, instead of having most of my strength based on grinding and spreadsheets.
(RTS do have spreadsheets if you are being serious, but these are simpler)

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 19:53:46 No.25263182
>>25258707
Both are equal actually.
The premise is good. The excecution is retarded.
But then SAO was quite a bit more ambitious and had well-done animation compared to B Gata H Kei.

Anyway, any opinions on Accel World?

Also,
>>25257806
>>25257778
This shit right here appeals to me.
I've played RTS competitively for a while. And I fucking love these small exploits.
In a story about videogame, it makes everything much more realistic.
SAO had quite a bit of depth about how the menu system was abused to force sleeping players into duels, meaning that you could kill them in their sleep even in safe zones because the "lose at zero HP" condition didn't take into account that people physically die when reaching zero HP.

And then there's the IS system in Accel World, which is all about fucking up the entire system by powergaming too hard.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 20:39:31 No.25263828

[Missing image file: 1369320722982.png]
SAO was bad because of the characters and shitty story. However, I thought the setting was pretty cool, and liked the actual world that they were trapped within.

If you want to run a setting like that, I'd suggest nwod.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 20:49:00 No.25263964
Something I wonder about:
When the FUCK did 4chan start hating SAO so much?
I remember the threads when it was still running. Then no one talked about it for a while.
And suddenly it's bashed as badly as Naruto or Avatar.

(Actually, >>25263828 is hilarious due to exactly that, as the line would apply to Avatar even more but even hinting at liking anything about it causes /tg/ to go full coaster mode)

Not to mention that there's people on /a/ making constant Attack on Titan threads, seemingly liking that atrocious show unironically. What the hell?

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 20:54:35 No.25264061

[Missing image file: 1369371371803.png]
>>25263964
A lot of things are like that.
>awesome setting
>shitty characters
>shitty plot
>overall status: irredeemable

SnK's killing me, personally. There's really nothing too great out this season. Gargantia's decent. M-maybe Kill la Kill will be good.

>>
Anonymous 2013-06-05 21:00:54 No.25264153
>>25264061
I enjoy DokiDoki Precure and Hentai Ouji.
The latter is almost as crazy as Baka Test. Exactly my kind of comedy.

I love how the line towards being "good" is entirely arbitrary in regards to only having specific good aspects.
AC2 is for some reason a wildly popular gaming trilogy despite not actually having any gameplay. Deus Ex Human Revolution was a clear rushjob with lots of cut content and a few really irritating oversights that were never patched (Like crosshairs being wrongly aligned after weapon upgrades).
Blade Runner had a nice scenery, but content-wise it was really fucking retarded. The basic plot device falls apart once you so much as look at it slightly hard.

Not to mention the whole faggotry of anime having a higher percentage of shittyness than most forms of media, yet having lots and lots of shows that are liked unironically.

Something is really fucking wrong with the tastes of people.
I mean, I enjoy Space Siege. But I know how fucking shitty that game is.







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